Premium car brand pricing; Lexus and Acura

I would still have to say that model year 22+ Of a solid brand such as subaru are safer, more reliable, technologically more advanced, etc.
Since you quoted Subaru, let's take the Legacy although it really can't be compared to a TLX or ES/IS: no it's not safer, based on crash test ratings all 3 are top picks. More reliable? TBD...but I doubt it. The 2GR in the ES is bulletproof and the Legacy has a CVT. More technologically advanced? I'm not even going to start that conversation.
 
I drove a new 2023 TLX (the 4cyl turbo version) yesterday. It was a very nice vehicle. Impressive engine; smooth and quite and decent power. The engine is what was the most impressive; I expected the typically thrumming and humming of a 4cyl, but it was really refined. The rest of the car was nice; most online reviews of the car are pretty fair and accurate. I think the only things which concern me are the fact that this car is kinda fat (heavy for it's class placement competitors), reported to not get the best fuel mileage, and the back seat is kinda tight. I like it. I didn't love it. But driving it did at least give me a baseline of experience that I can now use for comparison to some others.

Hope to test drive a late-model Lexus GS soon.
 
I worked for a Lexus dealership in 2016-17 and a few customers came in with a pre-built vehicle. The ones that did usually had to custom order.
 
I worked for a Lexus dealership in 2016-17 and a few customers came in with a pre-built vehicle. The ones that did usually had to custom order.
Curious... Lexus has a strong reputation for quality. Our 2013 GS 350 F Sport has 96K and has been stellar. I bought it under CPO with 50K I think. Having worked for Lexus, do you have any opinion on the GS quality? Wifey and I love this car. Thanks in advance.

I have to believe your thoughts are benefit to @dnewton3 in his search as well.
 
Owning a v6 gs 350, I later learned they make the car in a 2L turbo 4. To me, that car actually sounds more attractive, but it’s not optioned as well in the commonly available used offerings - smaller display, less-real leather, can’t tell if it’s got ventilated seats like the 350 commonly has. Not that I need any of that stuff, but it would be hard to trade down in order to get the smaller engine. I know that sounds weird… I like the torque curve of turbos and think the car would be a blast in that configuration.

mine has been reliable as a used car, AFTER getting all the “brokes” fixed under the “used car warranty.” it had several of them, however - seat belt retractor, 2 door lock motors, sunroof motor. The climate control air temp sensor fan has started squeaking on cold mornings. Mine is a 14. It’s the quietest, nicest “small car” I’ve spent any time in.
 
Owning a v6 gs 350, I later learned they make the car in a 2L turbo 4. To me, that car actually sounds more attractive, but it’s not optioned as well in the commonly available used offerings - smaller display, less-real leather, can’t tell if it’s got ventilated seats like the 350 commonly has. Not that I need any of that stuff, but it would be hard to trade down in order to get the smaller engine. I know that sounds weird… I like the torque curve of turbos and think the car would be a blast in that configuration.

mine has been reliable as a used car, AFTER getting all the “brokes” fixed under the “used car warranty.” it had several of them, however - seat belt retractor, 2 door lock motors, sunroof motor. The climate control air temp sensor fan has started squeaking on cold mornings. Mine is a 14. It’s the quietest, nicest “small car” I’ve spent any time in.
The 200t is a mistake. Gutless. A joke.
 
Maybe not of much value, but in 2019 we thought we would go buy a slightly used RX350. All the ones we looked at that were 3-4 years old were beat up. I detailed cars as a kid at a GM dealer (well I was the helper to everyone at the dealer, so I did most every job), so maybe I noticed it more than a normal person, but they still weren't great IMHO - dings here and there that were polished out or touched up, plenty of inerior damage that was polished over. I am not talking normal wear, but things like cuts in the leather were fixed and such. I came to the conclusion luxury car buyers that only keep there car a few years ride it hard and put away wet.

CPO might have been better, didn't really look there.

We just went and bought a new Toyota. Not at all luxury, but we got all the options we wanted. I would still buy a used RX if I could find one private party from someone who cared.
 
A Lexus is just an overpriced Toyota. Yes I learned this from Toyota fans.
Maybe? The GS is unique with the RWD driveline, and the sound deadening in Lexus offerings is real. Otherwise I would have simply bought a Camry. I didn’t buy a camry…
 
A Lexus is just an overpriced Toyota. Yes I learned this from Toyota fans.
Lexus IS and GS are OK vehicles. They could do a better job dynamics-wise, but their audience is different. I have a beef with IS500 as I was genuinely thinking Toyota would gather some courage and offer something competitive to BMW, Audi/MB, but it was just a big engine in A OK chassis. No any attempt to actually offer competitor.

ES is something that goes into my category of fake luxury vehicles. If it is not the longitudinal engine, no status IMO. The same goes for BMW X1 etc.
 
My aunt is older at 76 and she wanted a Lexus that was not easy to find. She is in TX and we were able to actually do really well at Park Place Lexus in Plano, TX. They had to find what she wanted and they did and did it rather quickly considering the only ones I could find was in southern Cal area. IIRC 2-3 weeks and under MSRP by about $800 and let me whittle the destination charge as well. Solid experience. The experience was positive enough that if I wanted a Lexus I would give a larger place in NJ (I'm in NY) a chance but I'd hop a plane and buy it in Plano.

Not much help; it's all I got for ya. Good luck in the endeavor.
Just curious, what's the plus to a NJ dealer? Having bought a used LS, I brought mine to one and that's where I got the bogus $6,700 MPI stating that's what was "needed."
 
Lexus IS and GS are OK vehicles. They could do a better job dynamics-wise, but their audience is different. I have a beef with IS500 as I was genuinely thinking Toyota would gather some courage and offer something competitive to BMW, Audi/MB, but it was just a big engine in A OK chassis. No any attempt to actually offer competitor.

ES is something that goes into my category of fake luxury vehicles. If it is not the longitudinal engine, no status IMO. The same goes for BMW X1 etc.
We went to an event at Citi field and got to drive the then new LS500, the RC, and the LC. As far as being competitive to the Europeans, it's 0/3. But I dunno, as I found out last week, there are 3 series exceeding 140k, none of those 3 cars are even close

It's totally different. When I drive my LS, I don't even consider other cars. I'm happy to be driving my mattress out of my bedroom to the garage at work. Totally isolated, and that's how I want it! If I didn't, then the 335i comes out.


:ROFLMAO:
 
We went to an event at Citi field and got to drive the then new LS500, the RC, and the LC. As far as being competitive to the Europeans, it's 0/3. But I dunno, as I found out last week, there are 3 series exceeding 140k, none of those 3 cars are even close

It's totally different. When I drive my LS, I don't even consider other cars. I'm happy to be driving my mattress out of my bedroom to the garage at work. Totally isolated, and that's how I want it! If I didn't, then the 335i comes out.


:ROFLMAO:
3 series at 140k is M3/4. There is no Asian competition to that.

LS has its audience. Compared to European competitors, it is way behind in everything. But, owners of LS don’t care about it. And that is fine.
GS was discontinued bcs. IMO Toyota was playing super safe. Certain audience that wants cars like that is easily moved elsewhere. My point was, if you claim you are making something special, make it.
I think IS500 was huge opportunity for Lexus, but that organizational culture prevented them from offering blockbuster.
 
3 series at 140k is M3/4. There is no Asian competition to that.

LS has its audience. Compared to European competitors, it is way behind in everything. But, owners of LS don’t care about it. And that is fine.
GS was discontinued bcs. IMO Toyota was playing super safe. Certain audience that wants cars like that is easily moved elsewhere. My point was, if you claim you are making something special, make it.
I think IS500 was huge opportunity for Lexus, but that organizational culture prevented them from offering blockbuster.
The culture was different in the 1980's. Imagine when the 1990 LS400 came out in 1989, they nailed all 4 tenets: top speed, mpg, wind resistance, and quietness. It's why my mattress has a .27 cd (although we all remember from physics this number is only a value in the overall equation but it's what people use to measure goodness, like HP), when my 335i is over .30 cd.

Heck, in 1989, BMW accused Toyota of selling the LS400 below cost. That's how good it was.

I've driven at least pre-pandemic all the Lexus vehicles, and the LS500 was particularly disappointing. RX was a total disaster. LC was nice but then again it's very expensive. So to say they have nothing like a M4 CSL, true, nothing. But BMW today is very mainstream, unlike 20 years ago. I'll always call out the turn signals, wiper controls, cruise control, and number one, steering feel, then that no stick is even available today on any car other than a base M3/M4 or M2 if available . They've even relegated sticks to lower models within that line. Japanese seem to be coming back with cars that are stick only, like that Corolla GR. Gotta love that YouTube where a GR blows the doors in of a E63 wagon at the ring. maybe it was Doug driving the wagon :ROFLMAO:
 
Just checked something, and imagine, Acura seemed to have been launched 4 years prior to Lexus. Is there any question as to which marque is more premium? It reminds me of BJs v. Costco. As a teen, my mom was a BJs member. Today, she's a Costco member, and the two aren't even close. Until 2022, I had never, ever, seen a Costco membership discounted, whereas for over 10 years, BJs memberships were either free or $20. but I did see Costco 1/2 price in 2022--ah maybe they're like Lexus--it's hard to stay on top lol
 
Actually that's not true any longer. I also thought that was the case, and it may be have been so in years past, but the most recent iterations of the cars below are not just "fancy" versions of Honda vehicles. The most recent ones are engineered by Acura from the ground up. They do share some items such as some (but not all) of the engines; albiet more powerful for the Acura brand.

The TLX is a unique chassis and is NOT based on the Accord.
The RDX is a unique chassis and is NOT based on the CRV.
The MDX is a unique chassis and is NOT based on the Pilot.

I'm somewhat intrigued by the TLX, but it's far more heavy than the Lexus cars, gets worse fuel economy, and they require premium fuel to boot.

If I'm going to speed $50k-$60k, I want something "better" than what I have (2018 3.5L Taurus). If I'm going to spend twice the money on a luxury car than what I did for the Taurus, I'd like to think I'll get more for my money than just some leather and a sunroof. For this kind of money, I "want it all"; good handling, good fuel efficiency, good power, decent interior and truck room, reliability, as well as the "fancy" fixings.
I had an Acura ILX several years back. Loved everything about the car, purchased CPO for 20k with 20k miles.

However, the car had road noise that was excessive. Phone calls were more than challenging. Dealer response was "pay me to figure out the road noise" and we do not provide loaners. From the "luxury" brand of Honda I say this was proof that it's not on par with European brands, BMW and MB.

I traded that ILX for 2016 528i with X drive, Also CPO. I still drive this car daily with 149k miles. All maintenance has been completed per schedule, 100% did not miss anything.

I would rate it, right now, 9.5 out of 10. AWD, quiet, fast and very comfortable.

My. 02 cents....try a 3 series in CPO with 5 years unlimited warranty. Prices are coming down--I see them for $36 to $40k.

These brands only have one line to engineer whereas Honda and Toyota do manage two brands with cost constraints. This is why the TLX has not been competitive with MB c class or BMW 3 series. Never will.

And...Lexus does not have a fold flat rear seat to handle large items. This alone is an incredible miss. I have fit 4 mounted Jeep wrangler wheels in the BMW, office chair with wheels, etc.
 
I had an Acura ILX several years back. Loved everything about the car, purchased CPO for 20k with 20k miles.

However, the car had road noise that was excessive. Phone calls were more than challenging. Dealer response was "pay me to figure out the road noise" and we do not provide loaners. From the "luxury" brand of Honda I say this was proof that it's not on par with European brands, BMW and MB.

I traded that ILX for 2016 528i with X drive, Also CPO. I still drive this car daily with 149k miles. All maintenance has been completed per schedule, 100% did not miss anything.

I would rate it, right now, 9.5 out of 10. AWD, quiet, fast and very comfortable.

My. 02 cents....try a 3 series in CPO with 5 years unlimited warranty. Prices are coming down--I see them for $36 to $40k.

These brands only have one line to engineer whereas Honda and Toyota do manage two brands with cost constraints. This is why the TLX has not been competitive with MB c class or BMW 3 series. Never will.

And...Lexus does not have a fold flat rear seat to handle large items. This alone is an incredible miss. I have fit 4 mounted Jeep wrangler wheels in the BMW, office chair with wheels, etc.
What I would be curious about is the G series BMW 3. If I'm not mistaken, taken with a grain of salt, CR considers that car reliable. It's no longer sporty like the 3 once was (3 Series was a 10 Best like 23 years in a row and has long since been removed from that list), but I totally get that we have to look forward, not live in the past. Since those G's are a dime a dozen as loaner cars, maybe they at some point will have normal used pricing again. CPO is another money maker for the dealer, one thing to realize is there's usually a deductible and it's not the same as a factory warranty, many things are excluded. my .02

p.s. your screen name was my corporate network login for 8 years...it was because I had no middle initial. Memories :)
 
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