Premature Oil Breakdown

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

EBG

Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
5
Location
Canada
I have an 06 Suzuki Hayabusa with about 30,000KMS on it, BMC Air Filter, Full 4-2-1 Yoshi Exhaust, PC3 tuned pretty will and a full time PLX Wideband and Gauge so I can monitor AFR.
I've changed the plugs in it about 10 days ago with NGK CR9EIX Iridium Plugs. Old plugs looked good actually.
I've changed my oil and filter twice since March.
The oil seems like its breaking down way too early.
Symptoms are that the engine, once it's up to temp, will idle with some minor noises in the bottom end, shifts are a little rough and it just doesn't sound as solid while riding.
When I changed the oil last, the engine ran so quiet and shifts were so smooth, it was a different machine, slowly, that has changed.
Since this last change (30 days ago) the oil level is a tad high definitely does not look the colour it did when I put it in( it's a tad lighter) and it smells like fuel, excessively so.

Last three oil changes:
Sept 2013 - Amsoil Synthetic 10W40 & Suzuki Filter
Feb 2014 - iPone Semi-Synthetic 10W40 & Suzuki Filter
May 2014 - Motul 7100 Synthetic 10W40 & Suzuki Filter

Any suggestions or ideas are welcome, thank you all in advance.
 
Unless you are doing extended change intervils, unlikely on a shared gearbox bike, High end syns are not getting you anymore for your buck. You may as well do something like I do. Use good dino motor cycle oil and add zinc/phos for better shifting. I have been using Valvoline 10w40 as of late in my GSXR, 3.98 quart at Walmart, with a bottle of zddpmaxx from ellisperformance on ebay for a few years now. About 7 dollars a bottle/change. I too have noticed that MOST oils in my bikes suffer big time break down, some under a thousand miles, shifting gets terribly notchy. I have a super sensitive shifting toe. I have 10w40 Defy QS in my TL1000 with zddp-plus added. Shifting is also staying very good in this twin. The key for me is getting the zinc and phos back into the 1700 to 1900ppm zone. For under 25 for oil, additive and a generic filter I cannot beat it.
 
Almost every 10w40 tends to shear down in a shared sump bike. I would try some Shell Rotella in it as it has proved to be a pretty shear resistant oil and at 15w40 it is pretty close to the proper cold viscosity.

Only other thing you could do is look at something like the Castrol 4t 10w50. When it shears down in short order you will basically a 40 weight oil when hot.
 
If you smell fuel in the oil, you have fuel system problem. Get this checked by a pro who knows your make & model of bike. excessive fuel getting into the oil can cause expensive problems if not addressed promptly. I doubt the brand of oil is relevant in this case. No brand of proper oil that meets spec should be breaking down in 30 days. Find out why the fuel mixture is so rich that it is noticeable in the oil just by smell.

Dr. Olds
 
You mentioned that you are monitoring the AFR. What numbers are you seeing under various conditions Ie: lightly loaded cruising, WOT, etc. If you can smell gas in the oil, you have fueling issues as previously mentioned.

Whether that is a result of your PC3, or some other issue, is the question.

Have you ever run Leaded gas in your bike?, that will dramatically shorten an AFR sensors life.
 
How can you have fuel dilution in a fuel injected motor? I guess it happens tho...
Are you draining out more than you are filling the crankcase with?
 
Originally Posted By: ddtmoto
How can you have fuel dilution in a fuel injected motor? I guess it happens tho...
Are you draining out more than you are filling the crankcase with?


A bad fuel pressure regulator is a possibility. The Honda 954 had issues with bad FPR's, I had a Honda CBR1100XX that had FPR issues too. The PC3's can develop problems and over-fuel, etc.
 
As for the spark plug appearance; He would ideally have a 10x magnifying glass, and lots of experience reading plugs that operated under a variety of conditions. Otherwise that they "looked good", doesn't really tell us much.

The fact the oil level is rising, appears lighter in color than when installed, and smells strongly of gas, indicates he has an over-fueling issue.
 
Originally Posted By: 02SE
The fact the oil level is rising, appears lighter in color than when installed, and smells strongly of gas, indicates he has an over-fueling issue.


correct.

there is no way this can occur otherwise.

if it was coolant, the sight glass would be milky.

clear but lighter in color is clearly fuel. and if it is visibly lighter in color that could be a LOT of fuel. the extra noise would be from fuel lubing the bearings, not oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
If he was running rich it would have really shown up on the old plugs he took out.


Exactly
 
You guys are all very helpful with LOADS of ideas and suggestions.
Let me clear a couple things up.
First off, I have been incorrect in some of my assumptions. Sorry for pointing you all in the wrong direction.

I changed the oil about 30 days ago, at that point the bike was running fairly un-tuned.
It was only about a week ago that I had the wideband up and running so I could make fuel changes to the map.
95% of the changes were cutting fuel all over the place.
Having put a timeline on these things I felt that MAYBE the oil may have been in the condition I thought it was in because it had been running rich for 3 weeks, I don't know.
 
I did took another forum members suggestion and tried to light a sample of the oil. Nothing lit. I also verified the texture of the oil between my fingers and compared it to brand new 7100. It wasn't that different really.
The smell of fuel may have simply been trace amounts.

I'm going to attach a link to another forum where this very conversation is taking place simply to point you to two pictures I attached. I can not seem figure out how to attach pictures directly from my computer on this forum.

http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/busa-problems/181268-considerable-smell-fuel-oil.html
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 02SE
As for the spark plug appearance; He would ideally have a 10x magnifying glass, and lots of experience reading plugs that operated under a variety of conditions. Otherwise that they "looked good", doesn't really tell us much.

The fact the oil level is rising, appears lighter in color than when installed, and smells strongly of gas, indicates he has an over-fueling issue.


I would assume It's really easy to identify plugs that have been very fouled up with your bare eyes.
The obvious aside, without having a professional with the right tools examine them, they look ok to the naked eye.
That's all I was saying.
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: EBG
I did took another forum members suggestion and tried to light a sample of the oil. Nothing lit. I also verified the texture of the oil between my fingers and compared it to brand new 7100. It wasn't that different really.
The smell of fuel may have simply been trace amounts.

I'm going to attach a link to another forum where this very conversation is taking place simply to point you to two pictures I attached. I can not seem figure out how to attach pictures directly from my computer on this forum.

http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/busa-problems/181268-considerable-smell-fuel-oil.html


Is it possible you are confusing the natural smell of the oil with that of fuel affected oil.
I would smell the virgin Motul 7100 for a comparison to verify.
Some synthetic oils have a smell that's similar to fuel soaked oil.

As stated previously, a used oil sample sent to a reputable lab will clear up any conjecture on the matter.

Now that the engine is tuned, an oil change is in order to monitor the oils actual service capacity in your application.
 
Best thing to do is to send in a sample for analysis. It will help to narrow down the possibilities.
 
Originally Posted By: EBG
Originally Posted By: 02SE
As for the spark plug appearance; He would ideally have a 10x magnifying glass, and lots of experience reading plugs that operated under a variety of conditions. Otherwise that they "looked good", doesn't really tell us much.

The fact the oil level is rising, appears lighter in color than when installed, and smells strongly of gas, indicates he has an over-fueling issue.


I would assume It's really easy to identify plugs that have been very fouled up with your bare eyes.
The obvious aside, without having a professional with the right tools examine them, they look ok to the naked eye.
That's all I was saying.
cheers3.gif



No worries, I'm just saying that truly reading plugs is a bit of an art, that really can only be learned from lots of experience. Sure, some conditions are more obvious. But there's a large gray area open to interpretation for plugs that have been running in an engine under various loads for awhile.
 
Give Redline synthetic motorcycle oil a try. I use the Redline 20w-50 motorcycle oil in my Victory Cross Country Tour. It has a 1731 cc V-Twin that shares the oil with the transmission and clutch and on my Blackstone oil reports it remains a 50 weight all the way to the oil change which in my case is 5,000 miles following the Victory factory oil change interval.

The Redline 20w-50 is very shear stable.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Redline or silkolene
Replies
3
Views
2K
Ellipsis
K
  • Locked
need opinions on oil-filter combo for my bike
2
Replies
22
Views
8K
SlipperyPete
V
  • Locked
Oil Suggestions
Replies
6
Views
2K
LargeCarMan
D
  • Locked
Looking for an alternative to Rotella T6. Ipone?
2
Replies
22
Views
6K
Bonz
V
  • Locked
PYB 10W-40 - any problems?
Replies
16
Views
10K
oliveoil
Back
Top Bottom