PQIA issues ANOTHER Consumer Alert – Everclear

[typ901]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: yaris0128


Who really aspires to make [censored] and expect people to buy it. Sadly people do Im sure. If they carry Accell non detergent SA at walmart then this [censored] must be selling too.


SA spec oils still have valid applications calling for it. I have two industrial air compressors that specifically call for this spec oil.


Out of curiosity-how old are the air compressors you mentioned?

 

[jim302]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro

SA spec oils still have valid applications calling for it. I have two industrial air compressors that specifically call for this spec oil.


Ok, but there is still no excuse for labelling SA/SB/SC etc as MOTOR OIL for vehicles. It is too confusing for the general public who are not experts in oil.

I don't have a huge problem with the ones that say NON-DETERGENT on them. I still with they would make it more obvious that it is not supposed to go in modern engines, but at least they make an effort.

The non-detergent (or low detergent) tested by the PQIA make it look like they are OK to use in a modern car by their packaging, and that is just irresponsible. Also, as I said earlier, these oils don't even meet the viscosity specs they claim to meet. They are complete junk that should not be used in anything.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
PQIA exposes another bogus motor oil. The sample of Everclear 5w30 looks like a straight 20 weight and has little or no additives. Once again, a product masquerading as a motor oil and claiming to protect your engine, when in reality it would likely damage any modern engine.


The oil in question lacks any indication of an API certification.

API Quality Marks

If consumers don't bother to look for API Quality Marks, what do you think the odds are they'll be aware of these consumer alerts?

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
If consumers don't bother to look for API Quality Marks, what do you think the odds are they'll be aware of these consumer alerts?


In addition to the website alerts, PQIA issued a press release that went out to 6,000 websites and several hundred news outlets. They have also contacted autorities in the states involved, and will continue to work with governmental agencies to help clean up this deceptive marketing. It will take time but at least the effort is being made.

For decades, the API has been charged with educating consumers about their quality marks, yet still I'm sure >95% of consumers have no idea what they are. PQIA is also trying to assist with this education process:

PQIA - Know the Codes

PQIA - Engine Oil Labels

PQIA - SA Oils

Tom NJ

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
In addition to the website alerts, PQIA issued a press release that went out to 6,000 websites and several hundred news outlets. They have also contacted autorities in the states involved, and will continue to work with governmental agencies to help clean up this deceptive marketing. It will take time but at least the effort is being made.

For decades, the API has been charged with educating consumers about their quality marks, yet still I'm sure >95% of consumers have no idea what they are.


Agreed.

I am certain that 99.999% have no idea who the PQIA is.

Who is PQIA communicating with?

It certainly can't be the folks who buy this unapproved motor oil.

 

[unDummy]

Is PQIA contacting state, county, orcity weights&measurements departments? or API, SAE, ILSAC, ILMA...... or the FTC BBB...????

If an oil fails for anything mentioned on the label, it should be forcibly recalled.

We've had oils recalled before. Not sure if every state enforces 'label claims' but the other oil powers to be and label police should react.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
If an oil fails for anything mentioned on the label, it should be forcibly recalled.


These labels seem to indicate that they contain oil.

"Forcible" recalls are rare, require very specific statutory authority, and generally involve matters of public health or safety.

Being cheap and buying a non-API oil probably does not rise to the level of public health or safety.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D


These labels seem to indicate that they contain oil.

"Forcible" recalls are rare, require very specific statutory authority, and generally involve matters of public health or safety.

Being cheap and buying a non-API oil probably does not rise to the level of public health or safety.



Depends on the state and how well they enforce their consumer protection laws. Most times it is the weight and standards division of a particular state that will enforce this issue.

Both California and North Carolina have forced recalls and levied fines for motor oil and gear oil that failed to meet the requirements on the label. In both those instances, they just barely fell out of range. In the case of the gear oil, it was not of any technical significance to the end user if they had already used it. In the case of the motor oil in NC, it was a mislabeled batch that was being sold as 5w30 and actually tested at 10W-30.

In the case of this Everclear oil, it is way out of the park and would be a slam dunk for any state consumer protection enforcement agency to go after.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Fine print on the back of the bottle says it's an API SC oil.


With only 3ppm zinc, it won't even meet API SC...

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Depends on the state and how well they enforce their consumer protection laws. Most times it is the weight and standards division of a particular state that will enforce this issue.

Both California and North Carolina have forced recalls and levied fines for motor oil and gear oil that failed to meet the requirements on the label. In both those instances, they just barely fell out of range. In the case of the gear oil, it was not of any technical significance to the end user if they had already used it. In the case of the motor oil in NC, it was a mislabeled batch that was being sold as 5w30 and actually tested at 10W-30.

In the case of this Everclear oil, it is way out of the park and would be a slam dunk for any state consumer protection enforcement agency to go after.


PQI Everclear Label Shots

It certainly seems to say next to nothing on the label.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
It certainly seems to say next to nothing on the label.


Not quite.

It says it is a 5W - it's not.
It says it's a 30 wt - it's not.
It says it is an SC/CC - it's not.
It says it is a motor oil - it's not.
It says it protects vital engine parts - it doesn't.
It says it combats rust and corrosion - it doesn't.
It says it works throughout a wide temperature range - it doesn't.
It says it is suitable for moderate diesel engines - it isn't.

The only thing on the label that's true is "The choice is clear".

Tom NJ

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
It certainly seems to say next to nothing on the label.


Not quite.

It says it is a 5W - it's not.
It says it's a 30 wt - it's not.
It says it is an SC/CC - it's not.
It says it is a motor oil - it's not.
It says it protects vital engine parts - it doesn't.
It says it combats rust and corrosion - it doesn't.
It says it works throughout a wide temperature range - it doesn't.
It says it is suitable for moderate diesel engines - it isn't.

The only thing on the label that's true is "The choice is clear".


http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/150916thAdd10308forprint-2.pdf

There is no way to test for compliance with API Service Category SC.

In any case it says that it is "in accordance with API SC/CC", whatever that means.

> It says it is a motor oil - it's not.

Of course it is. It may be substandard, but if you put it in your crankcase, it's motor oil.

> It says it protects vital engine parts - it doesn't.

To any known standard. I would imagine it is superior to nothing or water.

> It says it combats rust and corrosion - it doesn't.

In fact probably does. 3-in-1 does to some extent, as does used motor oil to some extent.

> It says it works throughout a wide temperature range - it doesn't.

I am rather betting that it flows through a wide range of temperatures.

It also says "Always consult your owner's manual for proper API service."

Anyone who does that will discover that the manufacturer suggests a motor oil bearing an API Service Symbol Donut at some level of API service, which this container does not.

Basically no one who knows anything at all about their service requirements or motor oil would buy this stuff to use in their engine.

I'll also admit it's substandard garbage that might properly be labeled API Service SA, 20W, if we were generous.

However, it is not clear to me to whom the "Consumer Alert" is aimed.

In order to buy this stuff in the first place you'd have to be completely ignorant of just about every bit of information aimed at the owner of a modern motor vehicle.

If that is so, you certainly are not going to be aware of this "Consumer Alert".

The API is certainly not interested in the "Consumer Alert" since it is not within their licensing program.

And certainly even major brands sell products that we would agree are mislabeled or at least bear labeling that does not meet the what we might consider "full disclosure":

Prestone "all makes, all models" claim not substantiated.

So, while I find this interesting, I am not sure what the utility of it is.

 

[Tom NJ]

Hi Wilhelm,

This product does not contain the necessary additives to protect an engine - as such it cannot meet the requirements (or be "in accordance with") API SC/CC. Nor can it protect vital engine parts as they will wear, rust and corrode without the proper additives. And I wouldn't define a motor oil as anything you put in your engine - if that's the case, then water is a motor oil. Let's face it, the label on this product is a bold face deception, and stating in small print on the back label that folks should "consult their owners manual" doesn't excuse or justify the large printed misleading claims. IMO, there is just no defending or rationalizing this type of behavior.

I agree people should know more about their oil, but then I can say that about lots of subjects. To quote myself from another thread:

"It's easy to pass off any fraud with "buyer beware", but the reality is that most people have information gaps in areas that are not of interest or priority. People have a tendency to trust others, especially in fields where we have little knowledge. So when the bottle label says the oil provides "excellent protection against engine wear, sludge, and rust", and has words like "Gold Plus" and "the best", most accept this. Even on BITOG, people frequently discuss and accept product claims and data without any verification. That's just human nature, and I don't hold it against them.

Scam artists exist because humans are not perfect, and they exploit these imperfections for profit. I agree people should be more knowledgeable on more subjects, but they are not. People buy these oils because of price, convenience, or claims, and trust that the manufacturer is honest. We do the same every day as we eat foods prepared in restaurants, or buy commodities from Walmart.

The problem isn't the consumer, and neither is the solution. The problem is the exploiter, and the solution is exposure and prosecution."

PQIA cannot reach and educate every oil consumer in the USA, but it is trying hard to make a difference by exposing fraudulent oils to the lubricants industry and notifying legal authorities. The consumer alerts on the website reach all the oil companies and many consumer protection agencies, and are getting a lot of attention. The industry is buzzing and the cheats are on alert - I'm sure you will see real positive change over time.

Tom NJ

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
This product does not contain the necessary additives to protect an engine …. The problem isn't the consumer, and neither is the solution. The problem is the exploiter, and the solution is exposure and prosecution."

PQIA cannot reach and educate every oil consumer in the USA, but it is trying hard to make a difference by exposing fraudulent oils to the lubricants industry and notifying legal authorities. The consumer alerts on the website reach all the oil companies and many consumer protection agencies, and are getting a lot of attention. The industry is buzzing and the cheats are on alert - I'm sure you will see real positive change over time.


Good luck.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Good luck.


Thanks!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
PQIA cannot reach and educate every oil consumer in the USA, but it is trying hard to make a difference by exposing fraudulent oils to the lubricants industry and notifying legal authorities. The consumer alerts on the website reach all the oil companies and many consumer protection agencies, and are getting a lot of attention. The industry is buzzing and the cheats are on alert - I'm sure you will see real positive change over time.


I am glad that the PQIA does checks like these and provides alerts. However, I agree with much of what Wilhelm posted. Personally, I have never once added oil to any engine, from the oldest lawnmower to a new vehicle, without checking the manual to ensure I'm putting in appropriate oil, by API specs and viscosity, and ensuring the bottle labeling matches those requirements.

Those people who don't check such things aren't going to be finding any PQIA alerts. They could just as easily, and just as likely, be putting the wrong viscosity in or not checking for manufacturers' specifications.

The people that make these supposed SC or older oils really don't care about what the API or PQIA say. Even if they get driven out of business by legal authorities, there will always be someone else to fill the void. I'm sure substandard oils could be imported and sold, with the blenders being totally out of reach of U.S. authorities.

Further, if the oil doesn't show current API/ILSAC certification marks, then is it really fraudulent? If they were saying SN/GF-5 or Dexos 1, that would certainly be a legal issue. Heck, they're not even saying that they "meet or exceed" such standards.

As for people seeing buzzwords on bottles such as "Gold Plus" or "The Best" or claims of protection, just about every oil, mainstream or not, makes such claims. Ideally, such an oil claiming to be SC should say "Use at Your Own Risk" in big letters across the front.

These types of oils have been around for many years. The solution is very simple. Don't buy them. I know you won't; I know I won't. Some people perceive a bargain and place that above all other concerns; others are simply ignorant. The automotive manufacturers have already done their part, to varying degrees of success. Whether one likes Dexos or not, it's pretty basic. Use Dexos oil only. Don't buy some SC oil with a brand that no one's ever heard of.