PP 5w-20 vs. M1 5w-20

[The Critic]

For a 2010 Mazda 3 at 7,500 mile intervals.

Tell me which one, and why. I would prefer that you give me some solid scientific evidence to support your answer.

Thanks!

 

[d00df00d]

Pennzoil Platinum, for three scientifically discovered reasons:

1. Pennzoil Platinum contains more letters than Mobil 1.

2. Both Pennzoil and Platinum begin with a letter that appears later in the alphabet than Mobil. Since later means more modern, this is strong evidence that Pennzoil is a more modern formulation, which should be good for your very modern car.

3. Whereas the letter M is two letters away from the letter O, the letter P is only one letter away. M is therefore twice as far away. Now, as we all know, the letter O is the equivalent of the Greek letter known as "omega", which is synonymous with "end". Pennzoil Platinum, with not one but TWO names beginning with the letter P, is therefore far closer to being the end-all of motor oils than Mobil 1 is.

....but seriously, they both meet the same specs (API, ILSAC, Ford, Chrysler, etc.). I sincerely doubt you'd see a difference.

 

[Pablo]

XLM 5W-20.

I know, I know. You don't want the good stuff.

I consider the PP superior of the two choices, but that's based on worthless UOA's.

I have a bias.

 

[JHZR2]

What kind of true science do you expect? Unless someone has a keenknowledge of the metalurgy of the engine, and the specific composition and type of basestocks and additive chemistries, we cannot make a science-based determination.

The best you can do is "read the tea leaves" for as relevant a set of parameters as possible, make a choice, and follow up with uoa.

But given that the car is new, you won't even be able to discern steady state wear rates for a while to discern if one really is better than the other.

I'd probably start by trying to extrapolate cranking viscosity at relevant temperatures to what the car will encounter (likely -30c isn't relevant), then judge by operating viscosity, volatility, and which one you see as retaining good properties overall from the uoa section.

If youre lucky, you'll find some uoa results for pp and for m1 with Mazda engines, which may also guide you.

 

[Falcon_LS]

IIRC, Johnny has used both in his Grand Marquis.

 

[compnurd]

I use both, I think both are equal and great and buy which ever has the oil change deal at Autozone or Advance auto when the time comes. Since Autozone has PP on sale this month with a M1 Filter i will be getting that!

 

[webfors]

PP, the proof is in the bottle.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I used Mobil 1 5W-20 in my Chrysler's 3.8L engine and it made a lot of noise. Ticking and tapping at idle speeds, cold or hot. I drained that out after about 500 miles and anything else is quiet in the engine. I didn't change the filter when I drained it, so I'm positive that the oil itself was the issue. It's the only Mobil 1 I ever tried (and ever will try probably). I'm currently using PP 5W-20 in it.

So I guess that's my answer based on my own experience in a completely unrelated engine: Pennzoil Platinum.

 

[EagleFTE]

I've used both in a late model Ford V6 and both of course perform fine. But then what quality motor oil wouldn't. My Duratech runs a little quieter on PP for whatever that's worth. I went from M1 to PP due to availability issues following the hurricane (Ike?). Otherwise I'd probably still be using M1. PP just went up in cost at Walmart and now is about equal to M1 so that is a wash. Oh scientific reason???? None. They look about the same. Viscosity 8.5 cSt @ 100C vs. 8.8. Pour point -45 C vs. -47 C. Flash point 224 C vs. 228 C. The data sheets are readily available on their web sites. UOAs look good for both but M1 usually has the higher Fe number for some reason. Flip a coin, just don't think with your dipstick.

 

[Bill in Utah]

I like Pablo's choice if you are going to run 7,500 mile OCIs.

PP would be next.

Personally since the vehicle will be for sale @ 75,000 miles I'd be doing 5,000-7,500 OCI with any 5w-20 oil.

And if it was not going to be sold, I'd still do that.

Bill

 

[Rand]

Id go with whatever is cheaper, and I'd use m1 0w20 over 5w20 if they are the same price.


I wouldnt feel bad about using a thin 30 weight either if its on sale like castrol edge.

very tiny difference between edge 5w30 and most 5w20's

I wish they would modernize oil weights and viscosity so they aren't confusing and require a doctorate to understand.

Their is about 3x the difference in viscosity between castrol edge 5w30 and maxlife 5w30, as between EDGE and the average 5w20.

 

[sangyup81]

PP 5w-20 46.84 cSt @ 40c, 8.48 cSt @ 100c, VI 160
M1 5w-20 48.30 cSt @ 40c, 8.80 cSt @ 100c, VI 163

The numbers seem to favor M1 but only by a minuscule amount.

Every car is different in the way it's been worn over the years. We all drive on different roads with different qualities of air and on different weather. Try them both out and if you insist on being "scientific" then submit some UOAs.

What I do know about these brands are that PP seems to be pretty good at cleaning up any junk in your engine while M1 has been tested to excel at extended OCIs.

Right now, you can get a jug of M1 for $1 cheaper than PP at Walmart. This price difference can very well change later so why not go with the M1 right now before it gets the same price increase that PP got?

 

[mechtech2]

There is no way we know what is going on in your particular engine in whatever driving conditions, at this stage in it's life.

Only price is left as a hard scientific fact. Go for the best deal.

 

[buster]

I'd go with Motorcraft 5w20 as I said in the other thread. However, for synthetics I still lean towards Mobil 1, but PP is probably as good or better in some areas.

Mobil 1 0w-20.

Quote:
Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy meets or exceeds the following industry specifications
ACEA A1,B1
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF4
Ford WWS WSS-M2C930-A
General Motors GM 6094M
Chrysler MS-6395


Maybe after I run this Redline 0w20 out to 12k miles, I'll run M1 0w20 for your viewing pleasure.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
....but seriously, they both meet the same specs (API, ILSAC, Ford, Chrysler, etc.). I sincerely doubt you'd see a difference.


Supposedly the TBN retention is much better with PP 5w-20. True or false?

Originally Posted By: Pablo
XLM 5W-20.

I know, I know. You don't want the good stuff.


If an Amsoil product was in the budget, this car would see ASM 0w-20.

On a side note, here's something interesting.

If I took the car to Pep Boys, they will change the oil and filter with PP 5w-20 and a Purolator PureOne filter for about $43 and also include a free tire rotation. I'd be in and out in less than an hour.

If I continued using the dealer, I would have to bring my own synthetic oil and pay them $25 to change it and use a Mazda OE filter. However, the dealer will hand-wash the car for no charge and will also perform a free alignment check with the Hunter Sidestep Meter. But as a downside, the dealer needs two hours for the oil change, and after the oil change, I would have to wait another hour at the America's Tire for a free tire rotation.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Supposedly the TBN retention is much better with PP 5w-20. True or false?

I've heard the opposite about PP in general but seen no good data either way.

 

[JCM35]

Everytime i have tried M1 5w20 i had a screeching sound in winter upon starting. Syntec, pp, synpower, and motorcraft all in 5w20 never did it. Why? I have no idea.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: JCM35
Everytime i have tried M1 5w20 i had a screeching sound in winter upon starting. Syntec, pp, synpower, and motorcraft all in 5w20 never did it. Why? I have no idea.


No kiddin.

 

[IndyFan]

I've run both in my Jeep, Solstice, and van. I've never been able to detect any kind of difference in sound or feel.

 

[rclint]

Originally Posted By: The Critic

If I continued using the dealer, I would have to bring my own synthetic oil and pay them $25 to change it and use a Mazda OE filter. However, the dealer will hand-wash the car for no charge and will also perform a free alignment check with the Hunter Sidestep Meter. But as a downside, the dealer needs two hours for the oil change, and after the oil change, I would have to wait another hour at the America's Tire for a free tire rotation.


Is a oil included in that oil change if you use the oil they provide ? If so I would jump all over it if it were free oil change, even conventional !! I know it's you car, but conventional oils have come so far, they are outstanding, and when combined with today's engines I'm not sure such the big need for synthetics we flock to so much (I'm just as guilty). Just my opinion, and I know it was not a choice, but if the dealer provides free oil I would let them do it with the oil they provide, drive the stink out of it worry free... and have a clean car as well !!

As for the other choice I say either one will do as well, try them both to see which you like best in your car, I know everyone says the iron readings from the Mobil 1 UOA's don't mean anything, but they still worry me, other than that I might err on the Mobil 1 side, I have run Mobil 1 in the past in my Accord with great results, but just as well I have done the very same with PP, and great results as well. You should at least give the Castrol Edge a try, I ran it for close to 15k and it is an outstanding oil, I didn't do a UOA, or anything that would cost more money, however I was very pleased with it, I like it better than PP, or Mobil 1 for the way it looked, and seemed to hold up.

If you go over on the 0w side I would like to hear about it, I have been tempted to run a OCI on 0w-20 to see if it's the cat's meow, I will soon, I have been thinking about letting my stash stay at the current level come next OCI to do just that, then I will be looking at all the choices of 0w-20 oils, with the same question you have now.