power bleeder gone wrong?

[Jack83]

I bought a Motive power bleeder and used it this weekend and i don't know what is going on but i pumped it up to 15 PSI and there is no leaks or anything as it held air but when i did the rear passengers side brake it sounded like a lot of air coming out.

It sounded like a water house sounds when you first turn the water on. I kept trying and it kept sounding that way. I keep it at 15 PSI.

hardly any fluid was coming out and yes the tank and brake fluid canister where full but the drain house had hardly any fluid in it.

What would cause this? Is it user error or is there something clogging up the brake line.

Strange thing is the brakes still work as they did before. Fluid was 11 years old, i have not done the other 3.

 

[FowVay]

It's difficult to diagnose without being there but it sounds like there is an issue with that specific brake circuit. Does the fluid level drop at all when you have the reservoir/master cylinder pressurized and bleeder nipple open? Is the sound coming from the bleeder nipple or from the master cylinder?

 

[JimPghPA]

Just a guess, but my guess is that the abs can't handle that type of bleeding. Maybe even that the abs was damaged. Just a guess.

 

[Jack83]

It's difficult to diagnose without being there but it sounds like there is an issue with that specific brake circuit. Does the fluid level drop at all when you have the reservoir/master cylinder pressurized and bleeder nipple open? Is the sound coming from the bleeder nipple or from the master cylinder?

I know it's difficult to diagnose without being here but thought you guys might have a idea.

Yes the fluid level does drop in the reservoir/master cylinder pressurized and bleeder nipple open, it's just not a lot.

When i first opened the bleeder nipple i got about 12-20 Oz of old fluid then the new fluid came out and that is when it started sounding like a water house sounds when you first turn it on until all the air comes out.......but all the air never comes out, i only get some of the new fluid like a trickle and it's not enough fluid to fill the drain hose that goes over the nipple.

You can defiantly tell it is pressurized when it comes out there is just not much coming out no mater how long you try......the old fluid looked like coke btw.

If i have a simi block in the line can a shop get it open or just replace it? Not sure how common that is or maybe it is something else.

the brakes still work, if one side did not work wouldn't you feel it?

 

[FowVay]

What vehicle is this on? I have this exact pressure bleeder and am familiar with the procedure except I don't put fluid in the pressure vessel but rather just use it for pressure. I just keep the reservoir filled with fluid. I have added quick disconnect fittings to my hoses so I can remove the pressure tank and add fluid to the reservoir without losing my vessel pressure.

If you bled 12 -20 ounces from the caliper nipple initially and then it just started pumping air then the air is coming from somewhere. It has to have been in the line. Are you certain that it isn't leaking air from the piston seal?

Do you have the ability to bleed the ABS pump? Maybe you have a bi-directional scanner or have a friend with one that can perform a pump bleed procedure?

 

[Jack83]

It is on a Honda CRV 2008, i have a autel scan tool but did not think you needed to do any of that. I'm sure it does it as it was $499.

I did not hear any air leaking from anywhere but of course that dose not mean it wasn't. The seal on that thing was crazy tight. All i could hear was pressurized fluid going into the drain bottle but only a little stream.

I don't know how the ABS works so could it simply be closed not letting much fluid pass?

 

[Jack83]

Just a guess, but my guess is that the abs can't handle that type of bleeding. Maybe even that the abs was damaged. Just a guess.

Maybe you are right but i watched countless videos of people doing it on the same gen car that i have without issue.

 

[Jack83]

I have this exact pressure bleeder and am familiar with the procedure except I don't put fluid in the pressure vessel but rather just use it for pressure. I just keep the reservoir filled with fluid. I have added quick disconnect fittings to my hoses so I can remove the pressure tank and add fluid to the reservoir without losing my vessel pressure.

I put fluid in the pressure vessel because that was what the directions said to do BUT i am sure you can do it without but i did not want to remove the cap that goes on your brake reservoir anymore than i had to, it was a pain to get on/off. so i didn't want to refill it over and over.

 

[FowVay]

OK, I looked it up in the service manual and it doesn't require anything special with regard to the ABS pump. So, what the manual states to do is to simply have an assistant press the brake pedal while you open the bleeder nipple. And to be clear, you know not to let up on the brake pedal once it's pressed until you have closed the bleeder nipple each time.

 

[Jack83]

ok but i used the one man method and i did the rear passenger side first.

Maybe i should try it again, i just don't think it should take that long as hardly any fluid was coming through the bleed screw.

 

[Nukeman7]

ok but i used the one man method and i did the rear passenger side first.

Maybe i should try it again, i just don't think it should take that long as hardly any fluid was coming through the bleed screw.

I have tried using the Motive bleeder with the Honda specific cap adapter on three different Hondas (2001 - 2006) for several attempts per vehicle over the past 10 years. I have NEVER been able to get flow through any of them that exceed ~8 drops per minute! However, all three vehicles bleed perfectly fine using the traditional 2 person method. At this point, I suggest you get a helper and perform the traditional 2 person bleed method on the CR-V.

I also tried cycling the ABS bleed procedure with a bi-directional scan tool with no change in flow rate. I don't know why I can't get it to flow any faster than the gravity drain method when the pressure is pumped up to 15 -17 psi in the reservoir by the Motive pressure bleeder. I am fully baffled since a few members on BITOG and the Honda forums have had good results using the Motive bleeder.

 

[Jack83]

I have tried using the Motive bleeder with the Honda specific cap adapter on three different Hondas (2001 - 2006) for several attempts per vehicle over the past 10 years. I have NEVER been able to get flow through any of them that exceed ~8 drops per minute! However, all three vehicles bleed perfectly fine using the traditional 2 person method. At this point, I suggest you get a helper and perform the traditional 2 person bleed method on the CR-V.

I also tried cycling the ABS bleed procedure with a bi-directional scan tool with no change in flow rate. I don't know why I can't get it to flow any faster than the gravity drain method when the pressure is pumped up to 15 -17 psi in the reservoir by the Motive pressure bleeder. I am fully baffled since a few members on BITOG and the Honda forums have had good results using the Motive bleeder.

I used the CTA Tools 7030 Master Cylinder Adapter as i did research it before i did it, as a lot of people had issues with the adapter from motive not sealing/fitting.

Your post makes me feel better! I thought i was just a idiot and did something wrong. lol

 

[Nukeman7]

I used the CTA Tools 7030 Master Cylinder Adapter as i did research it before i did it. Did you have the same issues as me as to wear the flow is almost nothing?

I also have the CTA 7030 adapter that is hose clamped to the Motive bleeder. And yes, while there is 15 psi in the brake fluid reservoir, there is barely any flow (i.e., only a few drops per minute) through each bleeder screw nipple. I have come to the conclusion that something in the Honda brake system design is not allowing the downstream flowpath to pressurize. The Motive bleeder works fine on a few Toyotas and Nissans that I currently service.

 

[Jack83]

I also have the CTA 7030 adapter that is hose clamped to the Motive bleeder. And yes, while there is 15 psi in the brake fluid reservoir, there is barely any flow (i.e., only a few drops per minute) through each bleeder screw nipple. I have come to the conclusion that something in the Honda brake system design is not allowing the downstream flowpath to pressurize. The Motive bleeder works fine on a few Toyotas and Nissans that I currently service.

That is the exact same problem i had. It makes me wonder how shops would bleed the brakes surely they don't do the two man method.

 

[Nukeman7]

That is the exact same problem i had. It makes me wonder how shops would bleed the brakes surely they don't do the two man method.

I currently use the cheap Harbor Freight suction bleeder tool with my air compressor on Hondas as it can empty the reservoir dry in ~20 seconds. Be aware that the auto-refill bottle for replenishing the reservoir does not work well on Hondas, so I just exercise caution to refill before the reservoir runs dry.

I was advised by my local independent Honda specialist repair shop that they use a professional version of this suction bleeder tool in their shop.

 

[JimPghPA]

I have tried using the Motive bleeder with the Honda specific cap adapter on three different Hondas (2001 - 2006) for several attempts per vehicle over the past 10 years. I have NEVER been able to get flow through any of them that exceed ~8 drops per minute! However, all three vehicles bleed perfectly fine using the traditional 2 person method. At this point, I suggest you get a helper and perform the traditional 2 person bleed method on the CR-V.

I also tried cycling the ABS bleed procedure with a bi-directional scan tool with no change in flow rate. I don't know why I can't get it to flow any faster than the gravity drain method when the pressure is pumped up to 15 -17 psi in the reservoir by the Motive pressure bleeder. I am fully baffled since a few members on BITOG and the Honda forums have had good results using the Motive bleeder.

I did the 2 person method with my 2016 CRV EX. I used Bosh ESI6 - 32N Brake fluid. It took 1 & 1/2 of the one quart cans. I did not save the half can because once opened it does age. The Bosh ESI6 has better long life specifications. So maybe every 4 years instead of every 3.

Thanks for the above post. Now I know not to buy a power-bleeder.

 

[The Critic]

I am fully baffled since a few members on BITOG and the Honda forums have had good results using the Motive bleeder.

Thanks for the above post. Now I know not to buy a power-bleeder.

I have bled many Honda’s using a pressure bleeder at 15-20 psi with excellent results. The key is to make sure your bleeder screws are clear and the reservoir is actually seeing a constant 15-20 psi.

 

[Nukeman7]

I have bled many Honda’s using a pressure bleeder at 15-20 psi with excellent results. The key is to make sure your bleeder screws are clear and the reservoir is actually seeing a constant 15-20 psi.

I have confirmed on several occasions that the pressure in the master cylinder reservoir is between 15 -17 psi and even blew brake fluid all over the place on two different vehicles when I slowly unscrewed the CTA adapter cap from the reservoir under pressure. Draping a shop towel around the cap kept the brake fluid from getting on the painted surfaces other than the firewall/inner fender.

The caliper bleeder screws are completely clear since the 2-man method and the HF suction bleeder works just fine. And the Motive bleeder works as designed on Toyotas and my Nissans.

 

[The Critic]

I have confirmed on several occasions that the pressure in the master cylinder reservoir is between 15 -17 psi and even blew brake fluid all over the place on two different vehicles when I slowly unscrewed the CTA adapter cap from the reservoir under pressure. Draping a shop towel around the cap kept the brake fluid from getting on the painted surfaces other than the firewall/inner fender.

Something is wrong with your setup. Did you remove the reservoir filter before starting the service?

I will gladly make a video the next time I flush a Honda. I have a Power Probe electric bleeder and a speedibleed at my disposal and they both work perfectly on Honda’s.

 

[Jack83]

I had the reservoir filter removed.