Post bailout, who came out on top?

[RamFan]

I'm curious to know what the forum thinks. Remove politics and tax payer money. Based on what Chrysler and GM have done since they were bailed out, who do you think has been able to truly turn it around?

My vote, Chrysler. GM has done great with the Cruze, 'Vette, SS, Regal, and ATS. But I think they've fallen short on evolving the looks of their cars, technology in their cars, and performance of their vehicles.

Chrysler I think has by far the most attractive lineup, they've truly incorporated technology, they're pushing a lot of performance improvements also (Pentastar, 8 speed). As a brand it just feels like Chrysler has been able to gather more fans and dare I say respect as compared to GM.

What do you think?

 

[Burt]

I am shocked that Chrysler is doing as well as it is. I expected them to not make it. And hasn't the government done okay in its investment?

I don't care for the styling on most of their cars. Most are bloated looking and have proportion problems. I wonder if reliabilty is still substandard.

But the public seems to like them. My hats off to them.

GM is a mixed bag. Cadillac is doing fine relative to Lincoln. Buick seemed to be nice cars but they're not selling big numbers. Chevy can't shake the entry level / rental car reputation. GMC ahould have been shut down IMO. I see GM as most likely to get into financial trouble again.

 

[Astro14]

Love the new Charger. Many of the new domestics drive very well...had a chance to drive many of them as rentals...just can't afford a new car... I'm not rolling in $$ like Nick...

 

[morepwr]

I think they have both done very well. I really like what GM is up to in the performance arena with the new Camaro options, the new Corvette and the SS.

I still think the Challenger is the best looking of the "retro" styled cars. I am not a fan of the new dart but I know that the trucks have gotten better and seem to sell well.

 

[Spazdog]

I'm a Mopar defender and it hurts me to say this but:


GM.

By the slightest of margins


Chrysler has good models. 300>Impala, Challenger≥ Camaro.
Charger is greater than ummmm....everything GM has in that class since the G8 went away

Corvette/ Viper. We could fight a whole 'nother Civil War on that matter. We will just be happy that American sports cars are of this caliber now

But then you have the Dart and Cruze and Avenger and Malibu. GM enjoys the advantage. Here is where it gets away from Chrysler. Until they have a competitive midsize, GM will get the nod.
200 is cheaper than the Regal but given the choice, I think most drivers will choose the Regal.

Small cars? There's the Sonic and Spark vs the......ummmm.... Can we count the Fiat 500?

Trucks? The Ram does enjoy a style advantage and an 8speed V6 mpg advantage for now but the 2014s from GM may change that.

It's closer than the GM fanboys are going to like to admit. One bread and butter big seller midsize and Chrysler takes the lead.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Best looking car,the Challenger by far. Trucks,GM and GM only.

 

[E365]

GM. I can't think of a single Chysler product I'd choose over the competing GM product.

 

[GMBoy]

I also think Chrysler and GM both came around very well with my nod going slightly to GM.

Reasons:

1. Chevrolet brand has been boosted with the hot selling Cruze and will get better with the diesel coming. The Sonic and Spark are very competitive, the Camaro and Corvettes are hot and the new Impala is a sharp car. This when added to the already strong SUV, crossovers and truck models and the Chevy dealer has just about something for everyone. No more cheapie Colbalt, boring Impala and lackluster old models are left in the lineup. The new Malibu was a slight disappointment, but still a decent car overall.

2. Buick has come around like I never dreamed. The Lacrosse is totally awesome and offers V6 and 4cyl power to meet diverse people's needs. The Enclave has always been real nice, the Verano is a very nice luxury entry level model that does a nice job hiding it's Cruze relationship.

3. Cadillac...well they are rolling great since the 2008 CTS rolled out. The SRX is only decent in my mind - but still a nice crossover. The ATS is looking to be another hit and the XTS is really nice car except I wish it was RWD.

4. GM Large SUV's really have no equal.

5. Most models are selling with little to NO discounting and the actual transaction prices are higher and this is improving resale value of used GM models.

Chrysler:

I think they did the Challenger right..it's the best retro model out there style wise. The Chargers and 300's are amazingly staying pretty fresh looking and the HEMI engines are always a plus. I think they watered down Jeep too much, but I will still love a Grand Cherokee SRT8!

 

[Vikas]

You guys want to read a book called "Once upon a car". It is extremely interesting. It should be available in your local library as hardcopy or in electronic format. I could not keep the book down.

 

[E365]

GM. I can't think of a single Chysler product I'd choose over the competing GM product. And I'm a long-time GM (and American car) "basher"...

I think the Dodge grill (Avenger, Charger, Journey, Durango ,Caravan) looks terribly cheap and tacky in person. I really wanted to like the Dart but as soon as I saw my first one in person it just reminded me of the Neon. I'd take a Cruze instead, especially in LTZ/RS trim.

I absolutely love the ATS and 3rd Gen. CTS . I'd choose either one over the competing German rivals. Never thought I'd say that...

Although still probably a fleet car, I really like the 10th Gen. (2014+) Impala. This is the only place I feel Chrysler can compete - with the 300. The current 300 is a great looking car. More $ than the Impala though.

Chrysler stuff is just fine, but they don't have anything that has piqued my interest like GM has in the past couple years (Impala, CTS, ATS, XTS, Cruze, Regal, etc.)

 

[mrsilv04]

Just GM and Chrysler?

"Ford Motor owes the government $5.9 billion it borrowed in June 2009, the same month GM filed for bankruptcy. By Sept. 15, Ford needs to start paying that money back. In a government filing, the carmaker said $577 million is due within the next year, and the full amount must be paid off by June 15, 2022."

--Forbes, 8/29/2012.

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/...t-surprise-you/

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Dodge gets the nod in styling for there cars and trucks, but i dont see any gas Dodge pickups in the fields around here.. trucks that WORK are Chevy & Ford. GMC's are nice and back in the day there may have been a real difference in Chevy v.s. GMC in quality.. if there still is i dont see it.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Just GM and Chrysler?

"Ford Motor owes the government $5.9 billion it borrowed in June 2009, the same month GM filed for bankruptcy. By Sept. 15, Ford needs to start paying that money back. In a government filing, the carmaker said $577 million is due within the next year, and the full amount must be paid off by June 15, 2022."

--Forbes, 8/29/2012.

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/...t-surprise-you/


I can't believe I didn't know that.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
Dodge gets the nod in styling for there cars and trucks, but i dont see any gas Dodge pickups in the fields around here.. trucks that WORK are Chevy & Ford. GMC's are nice and back in the day there may have been a real difference in Chevy v.s. GMC in quality.. if there still is i dont see it.


As my username might explain, Rams definitely WORK. Also, Ram is about to introduce a small diesel for their 1500. Ram 1500 diesel.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: RamFan
I'm curious to know what the forum thinks. Remove politics and tax payer money. Based on what Chrysler and GM have done since they were bailed out, who do you think has been able to truly turn it around?

What do you think?


Neither...any real company that wasn't getting free money that they only had to pay 60% back would have gone under years ago. They are both dismal failures who will not be able to pay back the initial investment. What would you do if you loaned your Brother in law $10,000 and he told you he could only pay you $6000 back?

 

[mechanicx]

They all have gotten subsidies http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/14907/foreign-owned-auto-plants-netted-$36b-in-subsidies. The OP asked to leave that aside. I guess some people can't keep their anti-domestic bias under wraps.

 

[daves87rs]

GM-

Better in small cars, soon to be better in trucks...


Dart is kinda dudding a bit, but boy do I ever see a truck load of chargers and 300s!Trucks are doing well too..

 

[eljefino]

Everyone: They've all developed their brand images/ personalities and actually give their owners something to fight about... like the late 1960's all over again.

Mopar: styling wins. Absurdly big engines in smallish cars like the 200/3.6.

Ford: "boring" family cars like Edge/ Fusion that still work out

GM: somehow marketing Buick to young people and Chinese and it's cool again... an inconceivable miracle! Cadillac is stuck with their styling success of the 2001-ish era though. Caddy and Lincoln both are playing "alphabet soup" with their names... XLR, MKS. I don't know what they mean, which is the best, and I don't care enough to find out.

I'm not convinced there's any "killer app" in new cars though, keeping me in 1990s era stuff! New cars have worse headlights (that look cool but have poorly formed optics), huge A-pillars, expensive, fat keys that take up too much space on my key ring. Tires are expensive, underhood service (variably) painful. I'm not convinced rustproofing has gotten any better.

Good news, in the scope of OPs question, is foreign names are less exciting than ever for all the reasons all new cars are unexciting, to me. Toyota/Honda seem to do most of the advertising around here, Nissan/Mazda/Mitsubishi are also-runs and there's little to differentiate the models. As I mentioned above, domestic names branding efforts are at least paying off/ showing some direction.

 

[itguy08]

GM and I'm no fan of GM.

Chrysler should have died in the 80's, Never made quality cars (look at their ratings - dead last) and use lots of gimmicks. Outside of the Viper and Challenger, nothing Chrysler makes is that competitive. And even there, Corvette > Viper and Mustang>Camaro>Challenger.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Yeah right.^^^^The above is no different than the ignorant anti GM stuff we see parroted here all the time. Those are typically made by the ragazine regurgitators who simply repeat whatever they read.

They've sold a million LX cars worldwide (300, Charger, Magnum). Still selling like hotcakes. The LC (Challenger) is unique among the ponycars with its content at a good price, it also sells like crazy. Dart is actually a pretty nice driver, and with a lot more personality than most econo cars.

Gimmicks? How about the idiotic Ford ad that claims the Egoboost burns AIR not FUEL?

And ha ha the Camaro outsells the Mustang. The customers have voted with their wallets!