"Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV"

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Originally Posted by Pew
I highly doubt Porsche and Audi (or any German brand) is concerned about Tesla.
And yet the headline news these days is how Tesla is spanking VAG. spank From the position of "EVs are the Future", then it matters who is winning. They do have time to recover, but reputation damage lasting I'd say 10 years is being done now. People's memory lags behind facts, so if VAG suddenly figured out how to out-do Tesla at EVs, it would take a while for it to be generally believed. I wish Tesla would make a Hybrid, with a tiny battery around 2 kWH, and begin competing head to head with the gasoline vehicle market. Then VAG couldn't say "Well, they can't compete on the convenience on long trips for quick and available re-fueling." Tesla should take that advantage away VAG and others.. .... and maybe skip the funky truck thing, a money hole for them.
 
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Tesla is an EV only company which gives them an advantage over other manufacturers. Without inter company competition for resources, they can focus on pure EVs. I struggle with Porsche "catching up". Particuliarly from a range standpoint, I have a queston for them: If they were so good, or "can catch up", why did they deliver an seriously inferior product?
 
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Mustang E is at 2.73 miles/kWH, so Ford loses to Tesla too! First VAG, now Ford, how did Tesla do it? Chevy Bolt (2WD) is at 3.92 miles/kWH, not bad, but a small 2WD car, so not the fairest of comparisons. GM did well here. Tesla Model 3 AWD is 4.29, less aero drag helps, this wins it all. And for reference, a previous summary: Tesla Model S 100D is at 3.35 miles/kWH Taycan 2.15, big diff. Audi Etron = Taycan at 2.15, interesting. Both aren't that good. for comparison: Nissan Leaf = 3.61, a smaller lighter car, not far off Tesla's heavy Model S 100D numbers though!
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Porsche and Audi co-designed their system. My understanding is, it is the same.
Both in the Volkswagen family along with several other brands so it makes sense.
 
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I find it hard to believe it is really testing this badly. It did much better in European tests. Elon bribing the epa testers??
 

wemay

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Originally Posted by dareo
I find it hard to believe it is really testing this badly. It did much better in European tests. Elon bribing the epa testers??
Can you share where you got this from, or is it just tongue and cheek?
 
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It will be easy to tell if the Taycan can run as far as a Tesla Model S. Every test magazine that can get a Taycan will go on a test road trip, and dramatically run out of electrons at some point, while the Tesla looks like the energizer bunny. If they have any brains, they'll vary the city-driving mix about equally. I like some frequency sweeps, along with the usual.
 
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Why is a Taycan priced at <span style="font-weight: bold">$150,000</span>, when you can get a Tesla Model S 100D for <span style="font-weight: bold">$94,000 </span>? Marketing geniuses at VAG. And for that, less range. Should have developed it more to be actually competitive.
 
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The original Taycan range was projected to be over 300 miles; it was downgraded prior to release. Porsche used the European standard which is more lenient; the 200 mile range is based on the EPA standard which is what Tesla range is based on. The Taycan is being compared to the Model S because there are few high end EVs. They are different cars that appeal to different buyers. There are buyers who cancelled earlier deposits due to the disappointing results. One might guess the beautiful Porsche Taycan will not see regular driving and not a great number of miles.
 
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Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The poor range while disappointing is irrelevant IF the vehicle is profitable.
Short term profitability is one thing, reputation loss is another. Porsche and Audi have already established how inferior they are to Tesla. Range kinda means something to people buying EVs. Many consumers won't forget that, at least for a few years.
If the vehicle sells and they make money how is it inferior to Tesla? You have to ask how important is range in Europe? I suspect its less important due to the vast public transportation network. Germany for example is about the size of Montana btw. It's a Porsche. You can bet that fit and finish will be top notch or at least should be compared to anything Tesla spills out. The fact is that German automakers have been designing/building new models with the intent of being able to substitute various powertrains (BEV, Hybrid, ICE, etc). This will help them reduce manufacturing costs and continue to sell units in markets worldwide. Don't get me wrong, automakers don't have forever but they do operate under profitability constraints.
 
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Originally Posted by paoester
Why is a Taycan priced at $150,000, when you can get a Tesla Model S 100D for $94,000 ? Marketing geniuses at VAG. And for that, less range. Should have developed it more to be actually competitive.
It's a first time BEV Porsche. Porsche Panamera starts in the mid $80k range.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Porsche used the European standard which is more lenient; the 200 mile range is based on the EPA standard which is what Tesla range is based on.
Any 'standard' driving cycle can be used. We could all make up one! All that matters is that there is an apples-to-apples comparison as a 1st priority. My standard would have stop-n-go, hiway, 45-mph stretches, up-hill, down-hill, you know; a decent mix. It's also nice to have 2 driving cycle standards, the Euro one and U.S. one, and then maybe average the two. Kind of like a poll of polls is more representative. Of course it all depends on what your daily driving cycle looks like. For EVs, aero drag is the most power-sapping thing happening. Drag rises with the square of the speed. ....The faster the drive cycle, the worse the range.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
There are buyers who cancelled earlier deposits due to the disappointing results.
Ouch. There must be some choice German words being spoken to VAG engineers & vendors right now. Not happy teutonic campers.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It's a first time BEV Porsche. Porsche Panamera starts in the mid $80k range.
I see your point. Even for a partial engineering failure like it is. Looks great anyway. Porsches are cool. There was a Cayenne thread recently that had me thinking that is the best SUV on the road, looks & drives that good. Porsche knows how to do those!
 
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Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It's a first time BEV Porsche. Porsche Panamera starts in the mid $80k range.
I see your point. Even for a partial engineering failure like it is. Looks great anyway. Porsches are cool. There was a Cayenne thread recently that had me thinking that is the best SUV on the road, looks & drives that good. Porsche knows how to do those!
The luxury german makes are in a tough spot because consumers who can afford their cars are software/tech junkies rather than gearheads. I think the BMW 3-series has been hit the hardest in the US. People who drive this model use it as a commuter car. Even the vulnerable M3/4 is predominately a commuter car on a low mileage lease.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
If the vehicle sells and they make money how is it inferior to Tesla?
From a range standpoint the Porsche fell far short of its own promises. The Taycan is not profitable; it is not released. I am not sure I follow your statement. When it is released, there will be huge development costs to recoup before profitability can occur. The Taycan is an incredible car and will forward EV development. But range is by far the #1 issue with EVs. I would have bet Porsche/Audi would have done better; they did not.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
The original Taycan range was projected to be over 300 miles; it was downgraded prior to release. Porsche used the European standard which is more lenient; the 200 mile range is based on the EPA standard which is what Tesla range is based on. The Taycan is being compared to the Model S because there are few high end EVs. They are different cars that appeal to different buyers. There are buyers who cancelled earlier deposits due to the disappointing results. One might guess the beautiful Porsche Taycan will not see regular driving and not a great number of miles.
This is also where I am. I see a very different buyer for the Porsche as opposed to the model S. My old pilot bud has had two brand new 718 Caymans. He's really old and frail but still loves the little cars even though he can barely get in or out of them! The point is he's quite wealthy and buys a car that provides a driving experience he prefers. And I am sure the average Tesla buyer feels exactly the same excitement, or at least I hope they do. It's just two very different perspectives. Porsche also enjoys a unique level of finish and fitment that few mfgrs can match. I advise anyone who is a real car guy to get to a dealer and see these cars in person and report back.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
If the vehicle sells and they make money how is it inferior to Tesla?
From a range standpoint the Porsche fell far short of its own promises. The Taycan is not profitable; it is not released. I am not sure I follow your statement. When it is released, there will be huge development costs to recoup before profitability can occur. The Taycan is an incredible car and will forward EV development. But range is by far the #1 issue with EVs. I would have bet Porsche/Audi would have done better; they did not.
I wish we knew why the range was reduced. Of course the Taycan is not profitable now, but I'm talking in the future. If they sell and are able to parlay that technology down the line up (ie Panarama) AND make $$ doing it then great. If the vehicles don't sell, require steep discounts on top of the subsidies then it is what it is. If it sits in the garage and accumulates 5000 miles a year like what I imagine is a majority 911's then range probably isn't an issue.
 
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