wemay
Site Donor 2023
Car and Driver: Porsche Taycan's Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30199684/porsche-taycan-ev-range/
"Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV"
- Thread starter wemay
- Start date
IMO the Porsche offers a very different driving experience than the Tesla. The differences are very significant to a person who appreciates a certain "feel" and expects more than a sterile interior and driver interface. Has anyone here really sat in a late model Porsche? They have a very different interior than the two Teslas I am familiar with. This is opinion only.
The fact that they do not offer the same range may actually not hurt Porsche at all. Obviously Tesla has a big head start here, these offerings from Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc., will be developed and rapidly achieve at least a near parity with Tesla.
I can't see why anyone would imagine that the old established car companies won't eventually make a better EV.
Im sure it drives killer - its an awesome car no doubt.
The problem isn't that the Porsche is the least efficient EV, or even that is horrifically expensive.
It's that i missed the expectation window that was set by a HUGE margin for range and charging speed which were supposed to be best in class Tesla killing.
Everyone claimed that i was going to be easy to beat tesla and they had no advantages and were a bunch of dope smoking idiots - turns out its not so easy and the biggest companies one the world are having a hard time matching, much less beating tesla with nearly a decade of run time to catch them.
As to Steves point - eventually they might, but they have more work to do than they all thought they did from every angle except coach building which is the easiest part of building an EV.
They also do not have an infrastructure that can ever profit from EV's and create a huge loss on that sector thats offset by their regular ice vehicles so as their mix changes profitability will suffer.
UD
OUCH! It looks like its back to the drawing board for them.
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
IMO the Porsche offers a very different driving experience than the Tesla. The differences are very significant to a person who appreciates a certain "feel" and expects more than a sterile interior and driver interface. Has anyone here really sat in a late model Porsche? They have a very different interior than the two Teslas I am familiar with. This is opinion only.
The fact that they do not offer the same range may actually not hurt Porsche at all. Obviously Tesla has a big head start here, these offerings from Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc., will be developed and rapidly achieve at least a near parity with Tesla.
I can't see why anyone would imagine that the old established car companies won't eventually make a better EV.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I wonder what differences in testing exist between the EPA and the independent firm they're employing?
The truth is properly somewhere in the middle. EVs are a learning curve for all.
I think we've all noticed that what we see in our real world applications doesn't necessarily match the EPA numbers.
But, obviously, the EPA has to use a standard testing regime so that different vehicles sold in the US can be compared.
Why did Porsche hire the outside team to do more testing when they could have just pointed to the European WLTP test result of a 280 mile range at no extra cost?
I think Porsche has egg on their face because they failed to live up to their promises.
Their promises were to better the (old) Tesla Model S in range and charging time.
They fell far short.
Some say they will do a better job sometime in the future, but they have had plenty of time to develop better results.
The Model S is going on 7 years old...
Porsche's resuources, engineering might and legendary experience surprisingly came up short in this regard.
The Taycan is an amazing car; it will make other EV companies better.
I wanna see the Tesla Roadster...
So it turns out other automakers can also over promise and under deliver. Who would of thought that?
When Tesla misses their goals it seems to upset many people. Many experts then chime in, claim Tesla is not a real car company and they have no idea what they're doing.
I don't see a similar reaction here. Do people at Porsche know what they're doing? Missing on such highly important goals is a rather obvious sign of their incompetence, if one uses the same measuring criteria.
Tesla Roadster - the fastest production street legal car in the world.
0 to 60 MPH in 1.9 seconds, and that's conservative.
600+ mile range.
$200K
Take that, Taycan.
Fundamentals: Poor efficiency means unnecessary heat loss in the power electronics, battery, and/or motors. That is a lot of heat here. Engineering failure. Maybe they will catch up in a few years.
That's how efficiency tells a story.
Tesla Model S 100D is at 3.35 miles/kWH
Taycan 2.15, big diff.
Audi Etron = Taycan at 2.15, interesting. Both aren't that good.
for comparison: Nissan Leaf = 3.61, a smaller lighter car, not far off Tesla's heavy Model S 100D numbers though!
A better measure of range potential is to look at "battery energy density". (Motors and power electronic efficiency gets better as evolution happens; i.e., Use better parts, VAG!)
Tesla Model S = 250 WH/kg, and a Chevy Bolt = 237 WH/kg, lagging behind Tesla.
Taycan = 190 WH/kg, using Inside EV's calculation methods, and I assume it's 1,389 lb battery pack has 389 lbs of structure & wires, an estimate. Not looking good for VAG here.
Of course that's just the battery tech. Still good to know how much energy goes into each kilogram of junk-in-the-trunk.
https://insideevs.com/news/342679/tesla-model-3-2170-energy-density-compared-to-bolt-model-s-p100d/ referencing the Model S and Bolt energy density.
Actually it was15 years ago when the first Tesla Roadster (with Li-ion battery) entered the build phase.
Originally Posted by UncleDave
tesla with nearly a decade of run time
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Tesla Roadster - the fastest production street legal car in the world.
0 to 60 MPH in 1.9 seconds, and that's conservative.
600+ mile range.
$200K
Take that, Taycan.
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Originally Posted by Pew
How can a car that's not even in production be the fastest production street legal car? And if we're going by Tesla's historical promised release dates, the MY2020 might as well be MY2023.
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The poor range while disappointing is irrelevant IF the vehicle is profitable.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The poor range while disappointing is irrelevant IF the vehicle is profitable.
Originally Posted by paoester
Short term profitability is one thing, reputation loss is another.
Porsche and Audi have already established how inferior they are to Tesla.
Range kinda means something to people buying EVs.
Many consumers won't forget that, at least for a few years.
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