I like how the coolant donest need changing. Change the oil yourself and call it a day.
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Porsche 20k Oil Change Intervals
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Where the Fe is coming from and how it's formed might be as important as the numbers.
hutchingsp
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Can anything good be read into the oil usage during the first year i.e. the amount of oil I've had to add as top-up's?
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
My use of a non Approved 5w-40 synthetic lubricant in my Porsche is based on past history - and with the approval of Porsche here in OZ. They know my history quite well! I know the history of their M96 engine too.
Doug,
I am curious if you could expand on this a little. What do you mean when you say your use of the 5w-40 is based on past history? What do you mean when you say you know the history of the M96 engines? What is the history of the M96 engines? Are you talking about the intermediate shaft problem? Can a different oil help with this problem? Do you think that the D1 5w-40 might help protect these M96 engines a little better than the 0w-40? I'm guessing that you must or else you would use the 0w-40 that you use in your Benz?
Kyle
My use of a non Approved 5w-40 synthetic lubricant in my Porsche is based on past history - and with the approval of Porsche here in OZ. They know my history quite well! I know the history of their M96 engine too.
Doug,
I am curious if you could expand on this a little. What do you mean when you say your use of the 5w-40 is based on past history? What do you mean when you say you know the history of the M96 engines? What is the history of the M96 engines? Are you talking about the intermediate shaft problem? Can a different oil help with this problem? Do you think that the D1 5w-40 might help protect these M96 engines a little better than the 0w-40? I'm guessing that you must or else you would use the 0w-40 that you use in your Benz?
Kyle
Hi,
Kyle - I have used this lubricant in my truck fleet over many millions of kms and for several years. Hundreds of UOAs and some engine teardowns give me much confidence in the lubricant.
I have used it in my previous Porsche cars, Subaru Outback, and various Benz, VW, GM, Toyota, Nissan, Honda and other engines - and over several years. I have mostly used HDEOs in my cars since the early 1960s!
All Porsche aircooled engines were factory filled with HD lubricants for decades
The M96 engine is often maligned for its RMS leaks, other oil leaking issues and some structural failures. My car has a modified RMS and has been continuously under Warranty from new to now. The majority are really excellent engines. Porsche is anxious to ensure that M96 Owners have the very best in customer use/expectations. They are very confident in using M1 0w-40 in these engines - all the way back to Stuttgart. And etc.
And no, I have no evidence that the Intermediate Shaft failures are in any way lubricant related
Porsche have long had a minimum HTHS vis. of 3.5cSt - I believe that a little higher number than this does add extra protection in some engine families
As well, Mobil do not sell a M1 5w-40 lubricant here and I live in the Tropics where an average cold start is at >25C in Summer and >10C in Winter. Mid day temps here can be in excess of 40C and I do a lot of long distance travelling - my children live 1200kms from here wherw I live near the Great Barrier Reef
I also know that Delvac 1 5w-40 exceeds Porsche Approval requirements but I can't go any further on that issue
I hope this helps
Regards
Doug
Kyle - I have used this lubricant in my truck fleet over many millions of kms and for several years. Hundreds of UOAs and some engine teardowns give me much confidence in the lubricant.
I have used it in my previous Porsche cars, Subaru Outback, and various Benz, VW, GM, Toyota, Nissan, Honda and other engines - and over several years. I have mostly used HDEOs in my cars since the early 1960s!
All Porsche aircooled engines were factory filled with HD lubricants for decades
The M96 engine is often maligned for its RMS leaks, other oil leaking issues and some structural failures. My car has a modified RMS and has been continuously under Warranty from new to now. The majority are really excellent engines. Porsche is anxious to ensure that M96 Owners have the very best in customer use/expectations. They are very confident in using M1 0w-40 in these engines - all the way back to Stuttgart. And etc.
And no, I have no evidence that the Intermediate Shaft failures are in any way lubricant related
Porsche have long had a minimum HTHS vis. of 3.5cSt - I believe that a little higher number than this does add extra protection in some engine families
As well, Mobil do not sell a M1 5w-40 lubricant here and I live in the Tropics where an average cold start is at >25C in Summer and >10C in Winter. Mid day temps here can be in excess of 40C and I do a lot of long distance travelling - my children live 1200kms from here wherw I live near the Great Barrier Reef
I also know that Delvac 1 5w-40 exceeds Porsche Approval requirements but I can't go any further on that issue
I hope this helps
Regards
Doug
Last edited:
Doug,
Thank you for the reply.
Would you use M1 Ow-40 in the M96 with as much confidence as D1 5w-40? Do you use the D1 primarily for the extra HTHS? Why not use D1 in the Benz also?
I am trying to decide which oil to use in the 2005 Boxster I am buying. It is almost out of warranty and I can get M1 TDT 5w-40 which I understand is the same as D1 5w-40.
Also, what do you think of the M96 engine? Do you feel that it is a reliable, well designed, low failure engine? I am slightly worried about the intermediate shaft failures I have read about. I am not really worried about oil leaks.
Thank you for the reply.
Would you use M1 Ow-40 in the M96 with as much confidence as D1 5w-40? Do you use the D1 primarily for the extra HTHS? Why not use D1 in the Benz also?
I am trying to decide which oil to use in the 2005 Boxster I am buying. It is almost out of warranty and I can get M1 TDT 5w-40 which I understand is the same as D1 5w-40.
Also, what do you think of the M96 engine? Do you feel that it is a reliable, well designed, low failure engine? I am slightly worried about the intermediate shaft failures I have read about. I am not really worried about oil leaks.
Last edited:
Hi,
Kyle - I would and do use M1 0w-40 with great confidence
My Supercharged CLK will be staying on M1 0w-40 - and "spot" oil temperatures on that car are around 140C!
If you live in an area with a moderate ambient temperature spread I would stay with M1 0w-40 in your Boxster. Very high summer temps (>40C) and regular high speed long runs would give some cause to consider using M1 TDT 5w-40 (Delvac 5w-40)
My Boxster runs a bulk oil temperature around 102-107C on hot days here
And yes the HTHS variance and the higher TBN is what interests me most with the 5w-40 version of M1 in Porsche engines
Regards
Doug
Kyle - I would and do use M1 0w-40 with great confidence
My Supercharged CLK will be staying on M1 0w-40 - and "spot" oil temperatures on that car are around 140C!
If you live in an area with a moderate ambient temperature spread I would stay with M1 0w-40 in your Boxster. Very high summer temps (>40C) and regular high speed long runs would give some cause to consider using M1 TDT 5w-40 (Delvac 5w-40)
My Boxster runs a bulk oil temperature around 102-107C on hot days here
And yes the HTHS variance and the higher TBN is what interests me most with the 5w-40 version of M1 in Porsche engines
Regards
Doug
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
The M96 engine is often maligned for its RMS leaks, other oil leaking issues and some structural failures.
Doug,
Are these "structural failures" quite rare? What do you think of the M96 engines? Do you feel that it is a reliable, well designed, low failure engine? I am slightly worried about the intermediate shaft failures I have read about. I am not really worried about oil leaks.
The M96 engine is often maligned for its RMS leaks, other oil leaking issues and some structural failures.
Doug,
Are these "structural failures" quite rare? What do you think of the M96 engines? Do you feel that it is a reliable, well designed, low failure engine? I am slightly worried about the intermediate shaft failures I have read about. I am not really worried about oil leaks.
Hi,
Kyle - The incidence of IS and "structural" failures is statistically really very low. I would purcahse a Warranty with your car however - but it is a late series with many very fine modifications sine 1997 and by all accounts they are VERY reliable engines
The M96 engines do perform well (the 2.5 was under powered)but I think it is unwise to use the 7000+RPM rev limit too much. I don't go much above 6500 in mine and then only when "needed". The Tiptronic shift is really magic!
Regards
Doug
Kyle - The incidence of IS and "structural" failures is statistically really very low. I would purcahse a Warranty with your car however - but it is a late series with many very fine modifications sine 1997 and by all accounts they are VERY reliable engines
The M96 engines do perform well (the 2.5 was under powered)but I think it is unwise to use the 7000+RPM rev limit too much. I don't go much above 6500 in mine and then only when "needed". The Tiptronic shift is really magic!
Regards
Doug
Welcome back Dougie. I have been off the site for a while.
One more expert is back IMO.
Virginoil
One more expert is back IMO.
Virginoil
Originally Posted By: kalbri
I am slightly worried about the intermediate shaft failures I have read about. I am not really worried about oil leaks.
As Doug said the intermediate shaft failures are rare but when they fail you really hear about them on the forums so they may seem more common than they actually are. According to mechanics, service writers, and what you see on the forums, most happen around the 30k mileage mark. Doesn't mean your home free if you buy a car with 50k, but most that have failed did so at a lower mileage.
The warranty as Doug said will give you peace of mind against a potential expensive engine replacement but please research the warranty company you choose. There is one person who had a bearing problem and he drove to the side of the road and the warranty company, "warranty direct" is denying his claim. Just repeating what the gentleman said on the forum, I have no idea which company is better than another. Your service Writer at the dealer probably has a good idea which company will fight you tooth and nail on any claim and which ones may be easier to work with (because the dealers have to fight with them if there is a claim just like the owner has to).
When I listed the types of failures in a post above I purposely excluded RMS leaks because they should be found prior to doing damage and are seldom sudden and catastrophic.
In terms of reliability the vast majority of owners have had good reliability and some now have lots of miles on them. The early engines (pre-2000) are known for some problems such as slipped cylinder sleeves. I have had over 400 cars and I would definately put it below Honda, Toyota, and Lexus in terms of reliability but right there at the top of the next teir of cars, and certainly higher than many cars (can't name specific brands because I'll get flamed ha ha). If you want to do the research, it's out there and will show what I said, that it falls somewhere near the top of the "second teir" of cars in terms of reliability.
I am slightly worried about the intermediate shaft failures I have read about. I am not really worried about oil leaks.
As Doug said the intermediate shaft failures are rare but when they fail you really hear about them on the forums so they may seem more common than they actually are. According to mechanics, service writers, and what you see on the forums, most happen around the 30k mileage mark. Doesn't mean your home free if you buy a car with 50k, but most that have failed did so at a lower mileage.
The warranty as Doug said will give you peace of mind against a potential expensive engine replacement but please research the warranty company you choose. There is one person who had a bearing problem and he drove to the side of the road and the warranty company, "warranty direct" is denying his claim. Just repeating what the gentleman said on the forum, I have no idea which company is better than another. Your service Writer at the dealer probably has a good idea which company will fight you tooth and nail on any claim and which ones may be easier to work with (because the dealers have to fight with them if there is a claim just like the owner has to).
When I listed the types of failures in a post above I purposely excluded RMS leaks because they should be found prior to doing damage and are seldom sudden and catastrophic.
In terms of reliability the vast majority of owners have had good reliability and some now have lots of miles on them. The early engines (pre-2000) are known for some problems such as slipped cylinder sleeves. I have had over 400 cars and I would definately put it below Honda, Toyota, and Lexus in terms of reliability but right there at the top of the next teir of cars, and certainly higher than many cars (can't name specific brands because I'll get flamed ha ha). If you want to do the research, it's out there and will show what I said, that it falls somewhere near the top of the "second teir" of cars in terms of reliability.
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