Polydyn TX7 increased mpg's, hp + torque

[Gro Harlem]

I recently bought a Celica & noticed this ridiculously long thread on the Celica forum I joined. It discusses Polydyn's TX7 oil additive. Since the guy posting it also sells it..I wrote it off. But today I had the time to read through it & I must say, it has me wondering now.

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226688

The thread is VERY long, but if you read through it..basically a person who was very skeptical was offered a free bottle to "try for yourself" / "put your money where your mouth is". He obliged, along with doing Blackstone oil analysis's & he ended up going from 34.0-35.5 mpg's to 37.2-39.8 mpg's. Engine wear differences were pretty negliglbe but his engine seemed to be in excellent condition anyways.

The initial poster (and guy selling the product) has dyno charts w/2-4hp & torque gains which is a decent improvement on a small 1.8 4-banger.

I did a search & found nothing about this product on this website other than people saying "it has teflon thus must be horrible". Apparently it has a different type of teflon w/smaller particles VS slick-50 so I'm not sure that arguement is enough to write it off.

What do you guys think?

Apparently they also sell an auto-tranny additive that reduces parasitic loss. I'm definitely interested in this since the Celica I bought is an auto for commuting purposes.

 

[mechtech2]

If you have a lock-up torque converter [common], I don't see how an additive in the tranny would make it more efficient.
But maybe the engine oil additive has merit.
Sure, there are umpteen jillion additives out there, but maybe this one is useful.
But don't expect the 4+ mpg increase like the other guy claimed, because a little engine friction loss does not equate to that tremendous increase in mpg.

 

[boxcartommie22]

tx-7 is great product mainly used in the racing and drag industry engines coatings..it is not a n ordinary teflon...this is a synthetic formula. i have used this for years!!go to their site and call them they will explain in detail for you.

 

[benjamming]

ordinary teflon vs synthetic teflon - pray tell the difference.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:

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it is not a n ordinary teflon...this is a synthetic formula.

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As opposed to naturally occurring Teflon.

 

[Tempest]

From their site:

Quote:

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How does TX7 accomplish this? By burnishing TFE particles into the irregularities of the metal surfaces

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Not according to Bruce.

Quote:

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Another feature that sets TX7 apart from other engine treatments is the fact that temperature is not a factor in TFE bonding. TX7’s TFE bonding takes place at friction wear points regardless of engine temperature.

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That I would like to see. PTFE bonding without heat.

Quote:

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Physical Properties
Viscosity Range
SSU @ 210°F 85 - 95
Viscosity Index 105
SAE Wt. 60 VII?
Pour Point 15°F

Flash Point 450°F
Sulfated Ash Wt.% 09

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Looking like snake oil to me. And no MSDS on their site.

 

[Gary Allan]

This uses TFE as opposed to FEP (I've worked with this in extrusion) or PFA

TFE - Teflon

TFE or PTFE, polytetrafluoroethylene, more commonly known as Teflon, is one of the three fluorocarbon resins in the fluorocarbon class composed wholly of fluorine and carbon. The other resins in this group, also referred to as Teflon, are PFA and FEP and is reviewed under that heading.

The forces binding the fluorine and carbon together provide one of the strongest known chemical linkages in a compact symmetrical arrangement of atoms. The result of this bond strength plus the chain configuration is a relatively dense, chemically inert, thermally stable polymer.

TFE resists attack by heat and virtually all chemicals. It is insoluble in all organics with the exception of a few exotics. Its electrical properties are excellent. Although it has high impact strength, its resistance to wear, tensile strength and creep resistance are low in comparison to other engineering type thermoplastics. Mechanical properties can be improved by adding fillers such as glass fibers, bronze, Delrin, carbon, and graphite.

TFE exhibits the lowest electric constant and lowest dissipation factors of all solid materials. Because of its strong chemical linkage, TFE shows very little attraction for dissimilar molecules. This results in a coefficient of friction as low as 0.05. Once again, because of this chemical bonding, TFE resins are virtually insoluble.
Properties

Inertness to most chemicals

Resistance to high temperatures

Low coefficient of friction

Excellent dielectric properties

Relatively insensitive to temperature

Relatively insensitive to power frequency

Zero moisture absorption

Excellent radiation resistance
Applications

Non lubricated bearings Valve components (as in valve seats/seals -not automotive combustion valves)
High temp electrical parts O-rings
Packings Seals
Gaskets Baffles
Coaxial cable connectors Capacitors
Transformer

First vendor that I found

 

[2way]

Gro Harlem,

Congrats on your Celica. May you enjoy many years of service from it.

As I am this person:
Originally Posted By: Gro Harlem
basically a person who was very skeptical was offered a free bottle to "try for yourself" / "put your money where your mouth is". He obliged, along with doing Blackstone oil analysis's & he ended up going from 34.0-35.5 mpg's to 37.2-39.8 mpg's. Engine wear differences were pretty negliglbe but his engine seemed to be in excellent condition anyways.
Hopefully, I get a little cred for being skeptical and doing a bit of research on this board myself. I felt I should provide a response to you in this forum.

If you read the thread, I do not directly attribute my rise in MPG to TX-7. My mpg was rising to begin with when I switched over to Syntec the previous year. I began to see rises on each oil change as my engine got cleaned out back then. I also use a pretty expedited oil change frequency. There is also the seasonal fuel piece that plays a significant part in those MPG differences. My actual change from the previous summer (I was getting around 36-37MPG last summer.) was only 1-3MPG.. and if you include fill errors.. more like 1-2MPG. I attribute most of the increase to switching to a synthetic and my expedited oil changes.

The oil analysis before & after, along with a VOA of Castrol Syntec 5W-30, a VOA of TX-7, and a TX-7 MSDS are all posted in the thread for those that are interested. Fortunately, from the VOA there appears to be no other additives incorporated, other than the TFE.

In researching & using this stuff... I've formed the following opinions:

1) It behaves very similar to Moly... hence, not needing the heat to "burnish". But, uses the same metal to metal method Moly does.
2) Using this additive with an oil that already has a decent % of Moly probably isn't going to do much. (Although, it looks like the Moly went down in my UOA on the 1st application of TX-7??)
3) Iron cylinder/iron block engines may benefit more from its use. The 2ZZ-GE engine in the Celica GT-S has MMC cylinder walls.
4) While the manufacturer claims to use a TFE resin, it seems more like a finer powdered old Slick50 knock off. The VOA of TX-7 seems to support this with the particulate that remained when spun out by Blackstone.
5) In limited amounts, it did not show any increase in wear metals. Which was my concern, given the old Slick50 junk.

While I did not perform any dyno testing, I am under the belief that a large portion of the changes seen with what was presented for hp/tq increases was due to the effects of adding a 50W carrier oil increasing compression.

BTW, it is a 50W carrier and the TFE bumps up the total to 60W. From the MSDS and my own nostrils.. .the carrier is not synthetic. Supposedly, the manufacturer is in the process of attempting to reduce the carrier weight.

In my personal case, I really don't see much benefit (cost or otherwise) from using it and will discontinue when I run out. I have already ceased using it in the Celica. I continue to stand by the assertion I made in the thread that: there is nothing better for your engine than frequent & regular oil changes with a quality oil.

I am curious to see what the oil intellectuals here have to say about this stuff, though.

 

[unDummy]

What page in thread are the UOA/VOAs? Don't care to read through 15 pages!

I have no issues with ANY product that you can prove that works for you. If you're happy with it, continue using it.

I typically don't run out and buy every product that is introduced. But, I haven't found too many that cause negative consequences, even those that are commonly slammed here.

 

[2way]

You'll find all of mine in my gallery: http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/showg...ime=&way=&date=