Quote:
if the issue is that some esters would displace AutoRX at the metal surface
Again, qualifying myself as a dunce in the realm of any real chemistry, that's not how I understand it. It would be Auto-Rx having to compete with the weaker, but still present, resident component. I envision it like a static charge ..where the rubbed balloon has to displace the like charged particles to stick to the wall, while if those like particles were not there, the bond would be easier to achieve (bear with me here).
Again, you're "packaging" this for broad based consumer use and you're going to configure it for the maximum performance over the specified duration of use.
Quote:
then wouldn't those ester be "cleaning" the metal better than AutoRX.
Better ..unlikely. They probably would reduce deposit formation. Protract ..elongate the formation process. We've seen transitional consumption from switching from PAOs to Group III ..from Group III's to PAO/POE and the like. This is probably (my speculation- but it reasons well) disruptions in the ring area. In my personal experience I went from 22k (10k/12k+) on Delvac 1, about the best PAO based HDEO in the world, with zero consumption ..then switched to RTS and consumed 1 quart @ 3k (changed-freaked) 6k (changed- less freaked) and at 9k (finally relaxed).
OVERKILL switched to Mobil 1 0w-20 (iirc) and found the grit in his filter not atypical with an Auto-Rx treatment.
These (again, my opinion) are disruptions to resident formations and occur due to changes in chemistry. This doesn't necessarily mean that they don't eventually form their own resident deposits over time ..especially in the ring area.
Although not being a direct comparison, I'd look at Auto-Rx as not unlike a brine soak regeneration on a resin bed in a softener except that you can still use it in process. The sodium (again, not a direct comparison since sodium is weaker than the calcium/magnesium bond) "gang tackles" the resident attaching components and kicks them off.
Quote:
In any case, I am sure that I am still left wanting with the circulating explanations as to why AutoRX should not be used with Group IV/V oils.
How long will the presence of esters protract the treatment length? How long does the average Auto-Rx customer want to wait? How long is "long enough" when using oils of various ester components? Would you want a customer using Auto-Rx over an extended drain (treatment, not maintenance) while not knowing the state of deposits in it? Would a person want to buy Auto-Rx if it meant ditching $8-$10/quart oil (just assuming that it's a DIY - let alone the customers who cannot change their own oil) in 2500-3000 miles?
I've talked with Frank many times over the past couple of years after he was kind enough to cooperate in my experiment with Auto-Rx. The biggest challenge that he encounters is all the "exceptions". Some want it over with in 5 minutes ..others don't want to keep track of the miles ..others don't want to do too many oil changes in xxx miles. The list is endless.
As I said, Frank could construct a virtual "Chinese Menu" and really get things complicated. IF you use a PAO/Ester based oil (one from column A) ..liability "I use Mobil 1 10w30, is that a PAO?" or "What's a PAO and how would I know?" ..and even if you asked the service center, does the guy they ask know if the oil they're putting in is a PAO or ester containing oil?? When I start slinging around PAO/POE/whatever at any of my wrench friend's shops ..I'm looking at a deer in the headlights. These span everything from reputable engine builders that attend Indy engine builder clinics ..to leading edge consumer evolution service shops (all the All Data software ..the works).
You're looking at this from someone who has more than a casual knowledge of lubrication and you're not factoring that knowledge in terms of bringing a product to market over a broader customer base.
So, it's not like your questions are out of line or anything, but multiply them by thousands and route that through a (mostly) one man show and you'll get an inkling about how it is way simpler to employ the KISS method to the process instead of configuring an infinite number custom recommendations for each and every customer..each one needing a mini-education while you're there.
You're asking for refined qualifications from the man with multiple spinning plates on the stage.
Disclaimer: Frank and I are friends. This was a friendship that formed from him responding to my experiments with Auto-Rx. He cut me a deal just to see what happened. I approached him and asked what he thought about it. It piqued his interest. Later he donated product for further experiments on vehicles of others. This is not unlike the relationship that I have with Bruce with my 0w-10 experiments with the exception that I'm not dealing with anything Bruce produces as a core product. This is the kind of stuff I do all the time as time permits. I'm only one man with limited resources ..so the "help", so to speak (this is in both avoided costs and the willingness of some to try out some of my ideas - Fueltankerman Dan for one) is always appreciated. In the process we've formed a decent relationship that also includes my input on how to cope with certain challenges that he encounters and lots of stuff that has nothing to do with Auto-Rx.
I can't find anything suspicious or unethical in that relationship. If anyone can produce a covert secret agenda in what I've just said, please point it out. I've had excellent results from using the product and have some knowledge about it (some qualified ..some not).
Am I supposed to remain silent
How about my opinion on PureOne filters? Delvac 1 oil? Which products or items am I supposed to "omit" from my discussions, even if I've got my own interests to promote?
