Originally posted by loudist:
[QB] Do you have any relatives that have infants?
Have him babysit the infant for 3 hours a day or night for a solid month so he can experience the result and responsability of having sex.
THIS IS THE ANSWER YOU'VE BEEN WAITING FOR! That is good stuff.
This is ALL good stuff. When this topic is over, I'm printing it all out and putting it in my "heaven help me raise my daughter right" file.
Please help....TEENAGER!
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Wow! What a thread. Andrews, the best to you. You're concerned and trying, and that's half of it.
For your son, I would define and point out the differences between sex, commitment, marriage, nudity and porn. Hey, most guys like a nude female body. But porn. No. It is degrading to people and exploitive. We all shudder to think of female relatives and friends being used as porn objects.
I have a 34 year old, an 8 year old (birthday today) and a 4 year old. All young dads and moms take notice. Most of your influence is before kids become teenagers. Please use that time of your life with them wisely.
From my 34 year old I found that many lessons seemed to be lost on him when he was a teen, but years later these lessons unfolded as he became a fine young adult.
May God bless you and your family,
Jack
For your son, I would define and point out the differences between sex, commitment, marriage, nudity and porn. Hey, most guys like a nude female body. But porn. No. It is degrading to people and exploitive. We all shudder to think of female relatives and friends being used as porn objects.
I have a 34 year old, an 8 year old (birthday today) and a 4 year old. All young dads and moms take notice. Most of your influence is before kids become teenagers. Please use that time of your life with them wisely.
From my 34 year old I found that many lessons seemed to be lost on him when he was a teen, but years later these lessons unfolded as he became a fine young adult.
May God bless you and your family,
Jack
Andrews...lots of good info here..I only have a couple of things to add..1) I had a strick step dad when I was 9...haven't talked to or seen him or my mom for over 25 years..and I don't care if I ever see them again..2) I never punished my boys for lying to me when they were young..when I caught them in a lie, I would just tell them that someday your going to need my help and I'm going to need to know the truth to be able to help you..it seemed to cure the problem even to this day..the sex thing...well..if only I could be 16 just one more time
He shares our values....after all, where else does a child get his values? I would hope from his parents and not society. He's a teenager. He has trouble sticking to his values because of temptation and a lack of maturity.
Well, you're not entirely wrong. Most kids emulate what behavior we see as appropriate....nothing abnormal about that. Is he a perfect little Christian boy? Certainly not, but who is? Christian kids are still kids, it's just that most come from a stronger base of morality and rules than most. Some revolt, some don't......same as any situation that involves maturity.
Keith, I agree with everything you've said. Our society is far from "enlightened". It's been on a steady decline for decades. I won't go into it in any more depth, I may upset the political monitors.
No, we don't have any family infants to expose the realities of life to him. I wouldn't want him to anyway, he's far too immature to trust taking care of an infant...even for a few minutes.
This is what happened yesterday after he got home from school. When he walked in the door, I was on the phone with his bio-dad so I just told him to hand me his backpack, and that I wanted to talk with him in a second. After I got off the phone I searched his pack for any more cd's and didn't find any. He asked me what I was doing this for and I said "you'll see as soon as your mom gets home". I could see a worried look on his face.....this pleased me. While waiting for his mom to get home from work, I heard him getting on his computer. I shouted "don't erase or delete ANYTHING in your windows media player or anywhere else". He was dead silent for several minutes. Then he asked "where are all my cd's?" I said back to him, in a stern voice "don't worry about it". His mom soon arrived home, and she was prepared for confronting him along with me, as discussed in a previous phone call. So, I got my wife next to me and walked into his bedroom and said "all three of us have got something we should all see as a family", my sons face began go from red to pale white. I told him to sit down next to the computer, near his mom, and watch the show. I got into his media player and began playing the porno that he had gotten from school. I said "gee, what is this?". He studdered and said "oh, that's just something some guy gave me at school", his mom was very disgusted and asked him "what kind of garbage are you watching?", "how can you enjoy looking at this stuff?", "you're a Christian and this is wrong". He stammered and said "I know, I'm sorry but I was just interested in looking at girls....I am a teenager you know". We proceded to tell him how it's ok to be interested in girls, but looking at them in this context was morally wrong and could really mess him up, for a long while, in his relationships with females. We found out who he got it from (two separate kids) and are in the proccess of getting a hold of the parents. I then pulled his computer from his room and told him that he's lost the use of it until he can be trusted. He was also told that his pastor had been notified and that he will need to speak with him about this. Believe it or not my son was fine about that, he said he really should talk to him and work it out. This was great news! I told him that further punishment will be handed down but that his mother and I will have to discuss it further. We plan on putting him on phone restriction and house detention for one week, plus a trip he had planned to go on in the summer, will be canceled, and the computer and TV will remain out of his room until further notice. I also suggested that he be honest with his girlfriend and tell her why he is in trouble. He said he would (she is also a Christian). Other than that, and a healthy lecture on the pitfalls of porno, lying, sex outside of marriage, poor character, honesty, not being Godly, real love, being a gentleman, and having to talk with the pastor, I think we did the best we could do.
You seem rather sure of this inspite of actions to the contrary. I do not share the same values as my parents; during my teenage years and young adulthood, I formulated my own. They contributed, but I did not copy them. You might have to open up to the idea that your son is not going to have the same religous and moral belief system as you. I think that you have enough behavior in front of you to indicate that this is a possibility. It could be a temporary temptation, but it might be a sign of a step towards independence.
This does not mean that you are not still the parent and get to set the rules and expectations that he is to follow. But, you must remember, sooner or later he will examine life on terms that you do not get to dictate. Be prepared that the outcome may not be what you expect.
Will you show this thread to your son?
Actually my son chooses to go to church and attends willingly. Would I make him go anyway? Yes, but he likes going and even wants to go more frequently. He loves his fellow Christian youth group and is very good friends with the pastor's son. Really, I know that a lot of you folks mean well, but his Christianity is not a cause for revolt, a repression, forced upon him, or anything even close to what I'm getting the picture some of you have about our Church and our Christian parenting. It just seems that I pick up a good amount of negativity towards our beliefs and moral structure. Would any of you be less judgemental if we happened to be Buddists or Islamics? I'll bet the responses would differ if we professed atheism.
I've often told him that when he's out on his own he can choose to do whatever he wants to do. If he wants to not attend church, it will be his choice. As a matter of fact, I suspect that he will drop out for a while like many young Christians do. I just happen to believe that he will return, if this is the case. If not, no big deal....it's his choice when he's an adult. My responsibilities will be done and he can do, be, act, pretend, grow, stagnate, or anything else he chooses.
That's life!
I have no idea where you are picking up the negativity. You appear convinced that you can appeal to your son on a christian moral ground. I am saying that you have evidence that he lies, why not question if he is lying about being a christian? He enjoys the social aspects of church, but does he really believe the moral message? I have never said that you are forcing it down his throat, you invented that yourself. I never said that he was revolting against the religion, you seem to be making that supposition. All I am saying is that you must be aware that the moral basis on which you are centering you arguement may not be meaningful to him at this time. His actions support this statement.quote:
Originally posted by andrews:
Actually my son chooses to go to church and attends willingly. Would I make him go anyway? Yes, but he likes going and even wants to go more frequently. He loves his fellow Christian youth group and is very good friends with the pastor's son. Really, I know that a lot of you folks mean well, but his Christianity is not a cause for revolt, a repression, forced upon him, or anything even close to what I'm getting the picture some of you have about our Church and our Christian parenting. It just seems that I pick up a good amount of negativity towards our beliefs and moral structure. Would any of you be less judgemental if we happened to be Buddists or Islamics? I'll bet the responses would differ if we professed atheism.
Beware the power of denial and good luck.
No, I don't think so. He may get the impression that I'm not able to make decisions without consulting the internet.....something I think is best left alone for now. I just want him to think about what he did for a while and talk with his pastor. Bugging him further may make him lose focus and get bored with the message. He knows he's forgiven.....but also that he's being watched 24/7. Any further problems that we may have with this issue, will be dealt with more harshly.
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andrews, you know what my first thought was when you said that about your son not flushing the toilet at home? I thought he might behave like a three year old because he's being treated like a three year old. And then I read this today, which confirms my belief:
I don't see how you can expect a kid to grow up and become responsible if you attempt to make all decisions for him. Sure, you can try to force your will on him, but you'll either turn him into a pawn or a rebel.
As for bringing up the whole "Christian" issue, being a decent human being isn't bound to any particular belief system.
I have to say I have big issues with all of what you said here:
Do you think you checked simply the wrong bag? Maybe you should have strip-searched him and ransacked his room. I'm sure your kid feels like a criminal, no matter what. You think its a good idea to confront him like you did about porn in front of his mom? Making an already insecure teenager more insecure? And face it, most teenagers are insecure. Can't you remember being one? I would have died of shame!
I don't see how you can expect a kid to grow up and become responsible if you attempt to make all decisions for him. Sure, you can try to force your will on him, but you'll either turn him into a pawn or a rebel.
As for bringing up the whole "Christian" issue, being a decent human being isn't bound to any particular belief system.
I have to say I have big issues with all of what you said here:
So it's all about you, your responsibility, and obligation which will end anyway -- and to **** with the kid. Once he's 18 you're off the hook? I find that view extremely cynical. It goes however well along with what I also notice. "I came home and my kid..." "When my wife came home we..." Nobody's ever around. Everyone is busy with their own lives. Good luck, you all will need it.
I'm not going to go into this very much, but if you examine some of the posts from this thread, an astute person can detect a degree of negativity, from a few posters, towards a religious upbringing and some aspects of a Christian lifestyle. And I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I think that you think I'm forcing religion down his throat. But again, some posters, well meaning, have hinted at that in one way or another. I didn't mean you, sorry. You've got to understand that as a Christian, the detection of negativity is a real one in this day and age. Nearly every day in the media and in society in general, Christianity is being attacked. That's all.
My sons Christanity is not in question here anyway. Many Christians, both young and old, fall "off the wagon" from time to time. Lying does not make one a "non-Christian"....only a sinful one, that requires an asking of forgiveness from God for doing wrong. He's a good kid having fairly typical problems, not a pretend Christian ONLY trying to please his parents. He knows what he did was wrong and he also knows how it is a sin against God. He'll try harder to be a better young man (I trust) and a better Christian as well.
I do not understand why that is the one thing you will not question. You search his bag. You search his room. You take his computer. You forbid him from leaving the house. Yet, on this one point, you have 100% confidence in his statements. To an outside observer, like myself, this makes no sense. Sorry if you think this an attack on your faith (it is not) but I had a very difficult relationship with my parents growing up, mainly because they attempted to reach me on ideological grounds that I did not (and do not) subscribe to. They refused to accept that I did not think like them, and so our relationship fell apart. I stopped listening.
I hope this is not the case for you and I hope that you understand I am only trying to share my experiences so that you can help your son.
TeamDFL,
Because he is baptized a Christian, said yesterday he is sorry and that he IS a Christian, and that he wants to talk to the pastor about the porno problem. It seems rather obvious to me and any casual observer, that questioning his Christianity, after pointing out and in agreement with him, how his behavior is not compatable with Christianity, that further pressure about his validity as a Christian, would be possibly destructive. I'm sorry that you had serious theological and personal difficulties with your own parents, but our son is in full agreement about God and how he is a Christian. I don't think others are as confused as you seem to be about this. If so, they can chime in any time. Just remember this, it was his behavior that was wrong, not his confessed belief in God. Okay? Sorry, but that's as simple as I can put it.
Because he is baptized a Christian, said yesterday he is sorry and that he IS a Christian, and that he wants to talk to the pastor about the porno problem. It seems rather obvious to me and any casual observer, that questioning his Christianity, after pointing out and in agreement with him, how his behavior is not compatable with Christianity, that further pressure about his validity as a Christian, would be possibly destructive. I'm sorry that you had serious theological and personal difficulties with your own parents, but our son is in full agreement about God and how he is a Christian. I don't think others are as confused as you seem to be about this. If so, they can chime in any time. Just remember this, it was his behavior that was wrong, not his confessed belief in God. Okay? Sorry, but that's as simple as I can put it.
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However, even a not-so-astute person will notice that you keep bringing up your son's Christian upbringing and belief system, so it seems to be an important issue, especially in the context of making him feel guilty within the context of his chosen belief system. Give him some credit. He knows what's wrong and what's right, but you can't force him to do the "right thing." The harder you push, the more resisance you will encounter -- up to the breaking point. See my previous "pawn or rebel" prediction.
I agree. I know I'm a little late chiming in on this, but I think that having his mother there was very important. Speaking from personal experience, I feel that mothers can motivate a young person's conscience much better than fathers can. Mothers can take advantage of their emotions much more effectively, where fathers are more logical. Logic isn't enough with these tough subjects. Hopefully he'll have a meaningful conversation with his pastor about this to really get him on the right track.
I'd give you this caution, though: don't take away your trust from him. If he knows you don't trust him, he'll be more likely to rebel.
Also, about the way he was grinding on her while kissing, that sounds VERY familiar and, in my experience, is not a sign that he's sexually active. Rather, he wants to be. Her moral strength is the most important factor in making sure it doesn't go all the way, but he needs your loving guidance, too.
Good luck. I hope all turns out well.
Amen
Moribundman,
Well of course his Christianity is an important issue, but my God, he's sixteen, not thirty four years old and a member of the clergy. Asking him over and over if he's lying about his Christianity because he got caught looking at porno, would be pointless and harmful. And I have given him much credit (read my post about his desire to speak to the pastor) for standing up and realizing he was wrong. No, I can't force him to do right, but I can teach him that certain undesirable actions can cause negative consequences. The point of your post is?????
Matt_s, I agree. I'm just glad that she is also Christian, and from all indications she intends to stay a virgin until she marries. I've told him that he is responsible for his actions, including sex, but I've also told him that in the end, the female in our society, is the ultimate protector of sexual virtue. When the women begin to act as men have, our society is doomed.
If he told you he would never put porn on his computer again would you let him have it back right away? If no, why do you belive him one time and not another. It has nothing to do with him, btw.
Wow, you are the king of assumptions. I had no theological issues with my parents. Where on earth did you get that from?
Here is as simple as I can put it: you keep addressing his behavior by putting it in a christian framework. You continue to hold out that he is not lying about being a christian, but trust him on no other point. If you would allow the possibility that (A) you might be wrong and (B) he could be lying about this, you might see that putting his behavior in another famework could also be helpful. At 16, you are looking at the world with fresh eyes, seeing things in ways you have never seen them before. Assuming that he sees the same way as you is falacy.
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