Play in greaseable ball joints?

[Jimmy9190]

To make a long story a little longer--Last week I noticed a humming noise from the front end of my Dakota from about 30 or 40 mph on up to 50-60 mph. I could put it in neutral and the noise was still present, and it was also present when slowing down from 50-60 mph back to zero. It sounded like knobby 4 wheel drive tires on pavement. I jacked up the front end and both wheels had some play in them when I grabbed the tire at 12 and 6 o'clock and pushed/pulled. The right front had about twice as much play as the left, probably 3/16" on the right, maybe 1/8" on the left. I figured the cause was bad wheel bearings so I replaced both front bearing/hub assemblies today with National brand assemblies from AAP. The front end is quiet now, no abnormal noise at all. There is no abnormal noise or vibration in the steering and no slop/play in the steering wheel. However, it still has the same or maybe just a shade less amount of movement in each front wheel as they had before I replaced the hubs.

I replaced both right and left upper and lower ball joints last January. They have maybe 15K on them now. I used TRW for the lowers and the Duralast for the uppers. The way I understand it, TRW makes the Duralast brand ball joints for Autozone. All 4 ball joints are greaseable. I know that when you have movement in the wheel at 12:00 and 6:00 positions the first thing to look at is the ball joints.

I keep the ball joints greased every 3000 miles. My truck steers fine, the steering is very tight and precise for 143K. My question is, on a greaseable ball joint is a slight amount of movement and/or play normal and acceptable? Do greaseable ball joints have a little more play or "give" than a sealed ball joint?

Thanks for any help on this.

 

[The Critic]

It should not make any difference whether it is a greaseable or non-user serviceable ball joint. If you pry against the ball joint with the vehicle lifted and you find play, then it should be replaced.

 

[OilNerd]

Last year, I had a small amount of play in the ball joints on my '89 Olds. My mechanic said he'd see how they were after re-greasing. He greased them back up and the play went away.

 

[Silver_civic]

I would replace the ball joints honestly. My dad had the same kinda thing in his 01' dakota sport 2wd. Replaced ball joints; no more problem, he used MOOG ball joints.

 

[beast3300]

Adding grease to a bad front part is like cutting oil. Many of the Duralast boxed front end parts are China or Taiwan anymore.

Greaseable or sealed the front end parts should be tight when they are still good. On that truck you should be able to jack up the front end; then pry up on the front tire to see loose upper (or lower) ball joints.


edit: Moog are definetly still the best in front end in my opinion.

 

[mechtech2]

They can wear and still be good - still be tight.
There should never be any play that is perceived.

Old GM ball joints could be measured for wear by the protrusion of the grease nipple. It was a feature.

 

[Trav]

You may also want to check your control arm bushings.
The ball joints are relativity new and you did service them so i suspect the bushings may well be the area that has play.
It cost nothing to check.

 

[bluestream]

Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Last year, I had a small amount of play in the ball joints on my '89 Olds. My mechanic said he'd see how they were after re-greasing. He greased them back up and the play went away.

 

[Chris142]

There is a spec for the amount of play allowed. Some cars are not allowed any play and others are allowed a small amount. 3/16 sounds like a huge amount though.

 

[The_Jeff]

Back in the 60s you were often allowed up and down play of up to .25"! But anything newer should be tight.

They had issues with upper ball joints on your year dakotas and durangos.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks for the info. I may be exaggerating in saying it had 3/16" of play. The right moved more than the left, exactly how much, I don't know. Maybe it moved 1/8" and the left moved 1/16". The wheel moves just a tiny bit on both sides when I push and pull on the tire at 6 and 12:00 positions. There's no problem at all with the steering and my tires are brand new and wearing evenly. My last tires wore out in the middle tread but that because I ran too much air pressure trying to get better gas mileage.

If it gets worse or I have steering/tire problems I'll replace the lower control arms. New LCA's come with new bushings and new non-greaseable ball joints. Right now the truck is doing OK but I have the original LCA's and bushings. I had to drill out the rivets on the factory ball joints and bolt in new parts when I put in the new ball joints. I probably should have just replaced the LCA's then.

Thanks for the help.

 

[OilNerd]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Last year, I had a small amount of play in the ball joints on my '89 Olds. My mechanic said he'd see how they were after re-greasing. He greased them back up and the play went away.

You can smack your forehead all you want, but I checked the wheels myself after the re-greasing and there was no play. Even the inspector, who initially flunked the car for the state safety inspection, agreed that the play was eliminated upon re-inspection.

 

[Rooy]

Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Last year, I had a small amount of play in the ball joints on my '89 Olds. My mechanic said he'd see how they were after re-greasing. He greased them back up and the play went away.

You can smack your forehead all you want, but I checked the wheels myself after the re-greasing and there was no play. Even the inspector, who initially flunked the car for the state safety inspection, agreed that the play was eliminated upon re-inspection.


That doesn't seem right. Think about it. Grease can't make a worn part new again.

 

[OilNerd]

Originally Posted By: Rooy
That doesn't seem right. Think about it. Grease can't make a worn part new again.


I never said it was like new again, just that the play went away. It wasn't a lot of play, to begin with. My mechanic thought the inspector was being overly hard on the car just because it was old.

I was as skeptical as anybody about the grease thing, but I assume that my mechanic knows more about cars than I, and had nothing to lose by his trying. I tried to move the wheels, myself, after the re-greasing. The mechanic checked it for play, his partner checked it for play, and later the inspector, the same one who flunked the car for play, checked it again for play -- and there was no play. With a replaced rear brake hose, the car was a NYS safety inspection pass upon re-inspection. When three mechanics and myself can't get play out of the wheels, then there's no play. As for how or why it worked, I don't know, and don't care.

Just sharing my experience with you. If you guys think it's [censored], so be it, I don't care. I'll gladly refund your purchase price. YMMV.

 

[Herz]

could be the grease filled in some tolerances within the balljoint that had worn?

Keep an eye on it, if this is the case it is a temporary fix at best.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: defektes
could be the grease filled in some tolerances within the balljoint that had worn?

Keep an eye on it, if this is the case it is a temporary fix at best.


That's what I'm thinking, worn is worn.

 

[cchase]

I'm pretty sure that I've read multiple mentions in maintenance handbooks that if you add grease to a joint and play disappears... the part is beyond shot.

 

[OilNerd]

Thanks, I'll keep a close eye on it. Being an '89, it sees enough time on lifts to check it every now and then.

 

[bluestream]

I have seen this happen with ball-joints before: Lower control arm is raised with a floor jack and ball joint found to have play. Vehicle raised on a hoist and given a lubrication, or other service. Ball joints are checked and have no play as suspension is extended. (Only way to revel the play is with a pry-bar) Tech assumes that joints is fine.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Last year, I had a small amount of play in the ball joints on my '89 Olds. My mechanic said he'd see how they were after re-greasing. He greased them back up and the play went away.


Sounds to me like he didn't feel like replacing bad ball joints.