piston slap

[BearZDefect]

z917990, I believe it is the Honda valves ticking when cold, at least in their classic 4-cyl engines of the 90s and earlier. Both my cars are 12+ year old Hondas, and both tick when cold but not when warm. If they tick when warm then the valve lifters need adjustment, and Honda considers that a maintenance procedure.

I haven't heard of Honda piston slap, but what do I know?

 

[NJC]

quote:

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Originally posted by 97f150:
Its still there, just listened to it. Sounds like its about to blow up.

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My '89 Volvo sounds a bit like that but only after hot - except it isn't a diesel.

I don't understand how piston slap can occur when engine is warm..? The aluminum pistons would have expanded and lessened the gap between cyl walls.

 

[vad]

quote:

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Originally posted by mrjlube:
Every morning when my car is cold(ford focus 2.0) I hear What I think is piston slap.

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Are you sure it is piston slap and not just noisy valves on the lose side?
The Zetecs are quite noisy. And produce a lot of valvetrain tapping while cold.
Still they are known to be very low-wearing motors.

 

[Alex P.]

quote:

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Originally posted by chiefsfan:
I can't vouch for the 3.1, but the 3100 GM engine sure is.

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Aren't you referencing the same engine by saying 3100? Or do they have more than one 3.1 series? I know there was the silly DOHC 3.4 (X) that isn't a 3400, because the 3400 is their workhorse 3.4L pushrod motor. The 3400s as a rule are still inferior to the 3800s, but a far cry better than the silly DOHC 3.4 VIN X with the dummy cam. :/
Anyway, my brother has a 97 Lumina with a 3100, and I drove it for a few weeks. It was very smooth hot or cold, and no noise on startup. I always associated noise on those motors with lifters due to poor maintenence, but perhaps I am mistaken. My only experience with them has been that they are excellent as long as you use good intake gaskets the first time they fail, as the stock ones were pretty weak. I've taken a liking to Fel-Pro myself, but I digress...

 

[bulwnkl]

nobadges, don't you think that this fact:

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nobadges:
After 175,000kms of HARD driving (it regularly sees 7000rpm) it has never got worse.

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makes this explanation:

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nobadges:
Their conclusion on the piston slap is that the cylinder/piston design (shape) failed to account for the heavy mounting torque of the transmission bolts.

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improbable, or at least entirely incomplete? I mean, if there was something going on with engine/transmission mounting torque, shouldn't it continue to worsen with miles, and more rapidly with hard driving or racing? The folks' collective experience on Neons.org show this is not the case.

I hear that many Neons make noise (neither my '96 nor my '00 ever have), but this explanation does not fit the symptoms as they are described.

 

[nobadges]

quote:

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Originally posted by bulwnkl:
nobadges, don't you think that this fact:

quote:

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nobadges:
After 175,000kms of HARD driving (it regularly sees 7000rpm) it has never got worse.

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makes this explanation:

quote:

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nobadges:
Their conclusion on the piston slap is that the cylinder/piston design (shape) failed to account for the heavy mounting torque of the transmission bolts.

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improbable, or at least entirely incomplete? I mean, if there was something going on with engine/transmission mounting torque, shouldn't it continue to worsen with miles, and more rapidly with hard driving or racing? The folks' collective experience on Neons.org show this is not the case.

I hear that many Neons make noise (neither my '96 nor my '00 ever have), but this explanation does not fit the symptoms as they are described.

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I agree.

Although I’m sure that the noise is from no. 4, block/cylinder wall distortion caused by transmission mounting would cause unpredictable results….
I’m more inclined to think the cause is poor engineering?

Anyway I don’t worry about it. Its not getting worse.

What do you think is the reason it sounds louder with a Fram filter….?

 

[bulwnkl]

Difference in the anti-drainback valve maybe?

 

[chiefsfan]

For Alex P., 3.1 vs. 3100.
The 3.1 was used in the early 90's through about 1994. The 3100 is an improved version of the same motor. 3100 has a different intake and fuel injection system and has some other improvements. They just called it 3100 for marketing. It originally started in the early 80's as the base 60 degree pushrod engine for the now infamous GM X cars. (Citation). I like my 3100s. Good power, smooth and reliable except for the intake gaskets. Have another 3100 in a 95 Ciera. No failures of any kind and 154,000, and uses hardly any oil.

 

[BlazerLT]

Maybe this is not piston slap and is dry start knock.

 

[z917990]

BearZ - Thanks for the input. Actually, it is a piston slap, not the valves. I had the valves adjusted at 62,000 (there's 67,000 on it now). The dealer guys said that piston slap was not unusual on the 2.3 VTECs due to short stroke and a short piston skirt. I had them do a compression test; all cylinders read between 170 172 psi, which is within specifications and about right for an engine with 9 to 1 compression ratio. I also googled "honda piston slap" and I found other documented cases of this condition. I've heard mixed opinions ranging from "don't worry about it" to "your engine is about to blow up.". Personally, I trust the compression and engine balance tests, which came back OK. I'm still going to try GC gold to see if anything improves. If not, I'm back to Trop-Arctic or equivalent. Anyway, thanks for your feedback.

 

[bigbadbowtie]

The old taurus 3.8 was also know for this. Mine started at 32000 miles in a 1994 GL and after 11 visits to the dealership they dropped in 05' long block. It also started knocking at about 10k miles. I sold it with 109000 and it was still knocking.

In the cold winter months it sounds like a rod was coming out of the block.

mobil 1 helped a little but it never went away.

 

[greg_J35]

Try using the reccomened weight Motorcraft oil and Motorcraft filter.

 

[mechtech]

I also really wonder if your Zetec engine has piston slap. They are built very tight, and I think you are hearing something else.
It may even be an exhaust manifold leak, that ticks and seals when hot. [or a dozen other things]