piston slap

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mrjlube

mrjlube

Joined
Sep 3, 2005
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Location
Royal Oak MI.
Every morning when my car is cold(ford focus 2.0) I hear What I think is piston slap. It lasts about five minutes. It has 54,000 on it and have been using mobil-1 5w20, do you think switching to a 5w30 would help in this matter?

Thanks guys!!
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quote:
Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
How would a change to higher operating viscosity oil alleviate cold start Piston slap?
Click to expand...
Well, on my Grand Am (3.4L V6) switching from M1 5w-30 to GC 0w-30 made the piston slap all but disappear. While they are the same "30" weight, well all know GC is thicker at op temp than M1, so it's basically the same thing...
 
I know some GM cars/trucks have piston slap due to the skirts being too short but I did not know Ford had this problem. Some of the Chevy truck guys(on the FSC forum) say they have seen noise levels reduced from a thicker oil but the problem is still there.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
How would a change to higher operating viscosity oil alleviate cold start Piston slap?
Click to expand...
No need for critism. Instead, a more professional attitude to help our fellow member would be best
smile.gif


mrjlube--Seems like alot of modern day cars have this problem. My thinking is try a different oil or LC would help? M1 is a good oil and if you wish to stay with with it, that's perfectly fine. Engines aren't built to perfection, but close. When it comes to engines, if you want a quiet engine with almost zero noises, then machining procedures, honing etc... would have to be right on the money. Try LC or a different brand of oil. You may not totally alleviate the problem but help quiet it down anyway,,,,AR
 
quote:
Originally posted by Airborne Ranger:

quote:
Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
How would a change to higher operating viscosity oil alleviate cold start Piston slap?
Click to expand...
No need for critism. Instead, a more professional attitude to help our fellow member would be best
smile.gif


Click to expand...
I must be getting jaded. What I was trying to say is that this acoustic nuisance happens on many engines including 2.7 toyota I4's. The starting viscosity at ambient temps of M1 5w20 compared to 5w30 are not much different.

M1 5w20 cSt @ 40º C 48.3
M1 5w30 cSt @ 40º C 64.8
A change in oil brands with different AW additives may mask this noise better. I am not sold on Noise=wear but if noise bothers someone they can expirement. I would Just add an ouz per qt of VSOT to the 5w20 and see if the additional additives quietes it down.
 
Kia Sportages, which use a variant of the Mazda FE-3 DOHC 4 banger, are notorious piston slappers. The engine sounds like a diesel when cold and under load. And neither dino or synthetic seems to help. But surprizingly it seems to have little effect on engine wear or durability. I know of many of these engines with excess of 200K miles and still running strong. I have 120K miles on mine with a steady diet of Castrol 5W-30 dino and 3K OCI's. No issues.
 
I can't vouch for the 3.1, but the 3100 GM engine sure is. I recommended Valvoline Synthetic oil additive (from a fellow BIOG) to a friend with 3100 and it did reduce the noise to about half of what it was.
I have a 3100 in a 97 Monte which I used Trop-Artic in since new. It is not a bad case of slap and could be mistaken for a noisy lifter. It has not gotten worse with age and does not bother me.
I remember seein a post here from a guy who had a slapper 5.3 GM truck. He said he tried everything and the best he found was Castrol full synthetic, 5-30, if I remember correctly.
 
Well guys, Hondas have this problem, too. My 1999 2.3 litre Accord slaps like crazy until its warm. I've been trying different oils to solve the problem with varied results: 1. It slapped loudly on Valvoline All-climate 5w-30 and Mobil 7500 synthetic blend 5w-30; 2. It quieted somewhat using Valvoline Durablend 5w-30 and Honda OEM 5w-30 (made by Exxon/Mobil). I just bought some GC gold and I want to try it for the next change. I hope that I have the same results as the previous poster.
 
Try cleaning up you engine with something like Auto-RX. Sometimes carbon build up can casuse a noise that is generated at the top of the piston stroke. This does not have to be hard contact but can happen when carbon closes out the clearances and noise is generated. Something like Auto-RX might help and would not hurt. Then, maybe a maintenance dose of Auto-RX and/or Lube Control to keep the build up down. Switching viscosity would not have anything to do with this kind of problem, but changes in your driving habits or making sure you get some trips in that warm up the oil completely, like over 30 minutes of highway driving. Also, a shock dose of Fuel Power with a following maintenance dose might help the upper cylinder area, too. Just remember that this kind of stuff is safer to do, but takes a little more time. Completely shocking the system with a harsh engine flush could be risky and that kind of stuff does not do the deep cleaning that Auto-RX will do followed with Lube Control. Besides, what else do you have to do on Saturday morning?
 
I too am not convinced that cold slap=wear since my 4.0 Jeep has been doing it for 197,000 miles. Maybe it getting less noticable or I've heard it so long that my brain is tuning it out. Cheers.
 
Noise and wear sometimes go together. If given the choice, I'd rather not have any of those slapping or ticking noises. We've seen some GM V8's in pickups that have had those slapping noise and cleaning out the carbon has usually been the end of it, someting about build up of carbon around the top ring and interference with the head at the top of the cylinder. GM knows how to build engines, so these problems are something GM could eliminate if they wanted to. They know how.
 
I have 2 Neons:
1998 DOHC (mtx)2.0L 175,000kms
2001 SOHC (atx)2.0L 75,000 kms
Both are run on Mobil 1 at 6 month/12000km OCI.
I have owned both since new.

The 2001 is driven moderately and has a very smooth running engine.
The 98 DOHC has had nasty piston slap from day 1.

I've traced it to cylinder 4. After a lot of searching I got my hands on minutes of a design engineers meeting discussing NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) Their conclusion on the piston slap is that the cylinder/piston design (shape) failed to account for the heavy mounting torque of the transmission bolts. Interesting.
The "slap" is very pronounced when starting in extreme cold (like -20c) and us barely noticeable starting on warm summer days.
It always disappears once the engine is hot.
After 175,000kms of HARD driving (it regularly sees 7000rpm) it has never got worse.

Also, for some reason, it takes much longer to go away after a cold start if I use a Fram filter.

For the last 2 changes, I have been using an oversize K&N filter HP2004(PH16). (stock size is HP1002). The piston slap is MUCH reduced using this filter.

This is my first post here.
I must say I am very impressed with this website!
 
quote:
Originally posted by KJA426:
Isn't the GM 3.1 a slapper also? I had a 1996 Beretta that tapped at cold idle.
Click to expand...
For sure. I believe GM's criteria is 2 minutes. If less than that..no problem if more
dunno.gif
I'd try a different oil. What I would do is put a quart of RedLine 10W-30 with the normal oil.
 
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