Piston Slap.... thicker oi????

[SailSkiDrive]

I have a 2002 4.8L Chevy Silverado w/ 63,000 miles that has the infamous "piston slap" problem that GM refuses to do anything about. At start up, especially in cold weather, the engine makes a loud knocking sound for about 30 seconds. It's really quite embarrassing and attracts alot of unwanted attention.

Until I discovered BITOG last year I had been using Castrol GTX 5w30 in the truck. However, I promptly switched to Mobil 1 5w30 after my "enlightenment". The noise seems to have gotten sigificantly worse since I switched to the Mobil 1. I wondering if switching to a thicker oil such as 10w-40 or maybe back to a dyno will help eliminate the noise. ??????

The truck is currently in the shop getting a small dent removed, I planned on dumping it on a Ford dealer this weekend and bringing home a new F150 until I discovered the 5.4L engines have a propensity to eject spark plugs. Just like GM, Ford refuses to do anything about it. It looks like we'll be shopping for a Tundra instead.
*sigh*

2002 Silverado - Mobil 1 5w30
2002 Honda Accord - Pennzoil 5w-20
2000 Acura TL - Mobil 1 5w30
1998 BMW Z3 - Mobil 1 0w-40

 

[mr_happy27]

What kind of oil filter are you using on the Silverado? I say try 10w30 or the 10w-40 you mentioned before and the stock filter or a purolator. My father has an 05 Tahoe with the new 5.3L V-8. No noises going on there.

Where did you hear that Ford 5.4L engines shoot out plugs? Maybe when using the wrong type of fuel or plugs in the aluminum heads.

 

[SailSkiDrive]

I've been using FRAM Super Guard filters on all of the vehicles except the BMW. Simply because they are readily available at the local WalMart.

The GM engines specifically affected were the 4.3, 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0L motors built between 1999 and 2002. However, even some owners of the new 4.8 and 5.3 continue to experience problems. GM will not do anyting about it because it affects as many as 600,000 vehicles and it would obviously bankrupt the company to replace that many engines. Check out http://www.pistonslap.com.

Regarding the Ford 5.4L spark plug problem, try a quick search on Google using "ford 5.4 problems" and you'll find endless consumer complaints including a company the sells an EZ out type kit to fix the problem. I'm very disappointed because I had a nice Ford F150 XLT picked out, but I refuse to once again purchase a vehicle that the manufacturer will not stand behind.

 

[dickwells]

"I've been using FRAM Super Guard filters" DANGER WILL ROBINSON

Maybe the knock you hear is the bearings while the Fram refills with oil that its defective anti backflow valve let drain out.

I see that knock can be mitigated by using GM carbon remover. The carbon buildup must contact the piston tops when the engine is cold and cause them to tip and knock.

Before buying a Ford check the net for info about door metal cracks.

Good Luck, RW

 

[SailSkiDrive]

Well the dealer confirmed it is "piston slap", unfortunately GM claims it is not and issue. But you are correct, carbon formation at the top of the cylinder is what is causing the problem.
The truck comes back from the auto body shop today (small dent), maybe tomorrow I'll change the oil to something a little thicker and this time I'll use a Purolator filter instead. I'll probably go w/ Mobile 1 5w40 or 10w40, the GM manual calls for 5w30.

I was told by the GM service manager that the GM "top end" cleaner will quiet it down for about 5,000 miles.

>>Before buying a Ford check the net for info about door metal cracks

Yeah I read about that too, I tell ya Ford and GM seem to be heading for a wreck. I hate to purchase a Toyota truck, it seems so un-American, but piston slapping and rocketing spark plugs are absolutely ridiculous engineering oversights.

 

[z917990]

I used to feel a bit guilty about purchasing Hondas until I realized several things: 1. Hondas and Toyotas are made in the U.S.A. using union labor - meanwhile many GMs are made in Mexico or Canada with non-union labor. 2. The profits from the sale of Hondas or Toyotas do not go to Japan - Japan is a country, not a company. The profits go to the stock holders and that includes many Americans, including me!

 

[mr_happy27]

My Father's 2005 Tahoe has a big sticker on the inside of the door that says made in Texas. I think the newer GM's are made in the USA and don't have these types of problems. As far as your truck, let us know if the non-fram filter helped out.

For the Ford 5.4L plug isssue, I'm sure the plugs being spit out were put in incorrectly and stripped the threads on the aluminun heads. I know many people that have this engine in their expeditions and have no problems. I currently drive a 4.6L mustang and changed the plugs out and properly re-torqued them in and have no problems either. This has aluminum heads also.

I have read on http://www.tundrasolutions.com/
some people are having problems there too. Any vehicle can have some problems wether it is using the wrong parts or being defective. Whatever you get, it will have a warranty and as long as you don't void it with non-stock parts or neglect, you will be fine.


Don't be afraid of the newer GM or Ford trucks.And try to stay with stock parts for warranty issues and reliability.

 

[Al]

Redline has been used by some here and they have said it quited it down. I had two 3.1's that had the 'slap'. You are right Mobil 1 doesn't help at all.

 

[Beast of Busco]

I have a 2001 Silverado that experiences the same thing. I have used the Napa Gold filter and now the Purolator filter, and neither makes a big difference in the noise when it's cold. It also hasn't mattered if I used Havoline or Valvoline (which is what I used before I found BITOG!).

I've also been told that it's no big deal.

 

[Mitch Alsup]

"Until I discovered BITOG last year I had been using Castrol GTX 5w30 in the truck. However, I promptly switched to Mobil 1 5w30 after my "enlightenment". The noise seems to have gotten sigificantly worse since I switched to the Mobil 1. I wondering if switching to a thicker oil such as 10w-40 or maybe back to a dyno will help eliminate the noise. ?????? "

Castrol is very slightly thicker than M1 (10.5 cSt to 10.3 cSt). You could look for a thick xW-30 oil in the 11.5-12.0 cSt range and stay in grade, or try one of the thinner xW-40 oils in the 12.6-13.0 cSt range.

See::
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009433

 

[forcedtalon]

You may also want to try running some premium gas for a a few tanks see if that helps. Also Try running a AC delco filter and another synthetic than mobil 1. Its not a good Idea to move up a weight when thats not the problem you live in a cold weather state and would run 5 or 10/30 year round.
Also mobil1 5 and 10/30 oils are thin oil and others have had the same problems. Maybe a good Idea to try a a diffrent brand. Look into penzoil platnuim.

 

[phlydude]

I don't know about the piston slap issue but seriously consider the Nissan Titan when looking at the Tundra. The Nissan 5.6L Endurance engine is plenty strong and although a newer vehicle, pretty much all of the bugs have been worked out for the 2006 model year.
Also, keep in mind that Toyota is coming out with a new Tundra for 2007.

 

[SailSkiDrive]

>>I don't know about the piston slap issue but seriously consider the Nissan Titan when looking at the Tundra

I like the Titan, but if I remember correctly Consumer Reports gave it a big fat black circle for predicted reliability. I'm definitely not a Consumer's junkie, but I'm a tad nervous to go down that route.

We looked at the Honda Ridgeline last night, it's a nice SUV, but I definitely would not call it a "truck". My gf liked it though, go figure.

The shop called an hour ago to let me know the truck won't be ready till Tuesday morning. So I guess the truck shopping will have to wait until next weekend. When I get it back I'm going to try the Penzoil Plat. 10w30 to see if it makes a difference.

>>You could look for a thick xW-30 oil in the 11.5-12.0 cSt range and stay in grade, or try one of the thinner xW-40 oils in the 12.6-13.0 cSt range

I like that idea. Thanks for the replys guys!

 

[Dr. T]

Why not try some LC along with FP to see if it helps the cold-start knock. It has for me. The LC acts as a friction modifier and the FP will help control the carbon buildup.

 

[Schism]

I am also a member of the F150 forums, and as far as I know, ford changed the heads in 2003 to fix the problem.(They did this quietly though as not to admit anything was ever wrong, but all companies do this at some time or another, sucks.) There are now more threads holding the plug in, so blowout is not likely to happen anymore. Unless you can show me where it has happened on 2004 vehicle or newer, I dont think you looked into the facts deep enough. Also while i'm speaking of ford and problems, there was also another problem(knocking) on the earlier higher rated 5.4's but I believe this is now fixed. Most of the major bugs as far as mechanics should now be worked out.

As for piston slap, I heard it really doesn't effect longevity. If you really want a different truck, try dodge, but if you go to a dodge forum you will see numerous problems there as well. There are problems with every brand of truck, even the nissans and toyotas, however it might be less so with them, I havent been to any import truck forums lately.
All i'm saying is your chance of finding perfection is slim, but there are those gems that everything is just right on and have no problems, it just seems that when it comes to trucks, they can be hard to find sometimes.

As for oil, I wouldn't use anything thicker than a 15w40.

 

[Ken2]

SailSkiDrive

Your engine's "Cold Start Knock" (CSK) has one or two causes. It might indeed be piston slap where the piston rocks from one side to the other in the bore until the aluminum piston gets warm and expands.

Or it might be carbon on the piston crown and combustion chamber hitting when the piston in the cold engine reachs the top of the stroke. A warm engine gets taller and this is no longer a problem...thus the top end cleaner as a temporary fix.

Or it might be both. So use a combustion chamber cleaner. There are several good ones...Chevron Techron Concentrate, Red Line Fuel System Cleaner, BG 44K, SeaFoam, the GM stuff, some of the Berryman B-12 products. Use of Fuel Power FP60 long term might prevent reoccurance.

Try different brands of 5w30 oil, or 10w30 in the summer. Different brands of oil have different abilities to damp noise. All oils are about equally good* so stick with the brand that is quietest in your engine. (*Synthetic oil is far superior when very cold or very hot.) Change your oil according to your Oil Life Monitor.


Ken

 

[bretfraz]

I have a Sierra with the 5.3L and while CSK is not a serious issue, I do hear some during AM startup, among other times.

Definitely try a 10w30 in your Vortec. I've used Chevron Supreme in mine and it helps a bit. If you want a synth, use either Castrol Syntec 0w30 (aka German Castrol, which is what I've been using for the past year) or something like Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5W-40 or their 0W-40. All of these have a higher vis than many 5w30's and are certainly "thicker" than M1 5w30 which is notoriously "thin".

FWIW, I ran Mobil Clean 7500 5w30 in my truck for one OCI. The engine rattled like an old tin can in a rusty pipe. I dumped it early and went back to GC. All is well now.

BTW, FP and LC do nothing for CSK. I use them both and they're great products, but aren't a fix for this problem.

 

[2KBMW]

Z917990. Like Yeti said. Big 3 auto plants
in Canada are all union (CAW). Even though
Honda, Toyota, etc build in the US and in
Canada, it's the engineering and design thats
different. Your buying Japanese or European
designed vehicle.

 

[BUBBA0420]

Well Guys: The other difference is that Toyota
stands behind there product. You would think
hat GM and Ford would have learned that by now
but I guess not. Than they wonder why they
are losing money. How stupid can those over
paid CEO's be.

 

[SailSkiDrive]

>>I am also a member of the F150 forums, and as far as I know, ford changed the heads in 2003 to fix the problem

This is good news because I really like the new F-150 and if this is the case I'll probably get one.

>>Or it might be both. So use a combustion chamber cleaner

When I posted this last night I kind of forgot that I already put some top end cleaner in the tank, so we'll se what happens. If it is still loud and hideous, the truck gets a new home.
I do wish I had it back for this weekend, the Acura is on loan and I'm stuck driving a Z3 with snow possibly on the way.

~Sail