Piston cleanleness

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by StevieC

My choice would obviously be Amsoil, here are their results compared to 2 other brands: ...
Although I didn't look at the Pistons in my Santa Fe when the camshaft snapped the heads were spotless clean ...
Since you "didn't look at the Pistons," do you have other reasons to believe freedom from ring coking would necessarily correlate with cleanliness of heads?

Did you read the part where I said it was subjective? Also the part about doing compression testing and it being near factory perfect after 300K miles? Surely if there was coking in the rings there would be other signs as well at that mileage.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
https://www.swri.org/sites/default/files/sequence-iiig-test.pdf
That test and TEOSt 33c are fairly predictive.

This ^^^^

My choice would obviously be Amsoil, here are their results compared to 2 other brands:
https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/motor-oil/articles/leading-the-field-in-deposit-protection/


Even though this is old data, those brands today would probably result in a similar ranking. One reason I went with Valvoline full synthetic (now called "Advanced").

They have changed their formulation since these tests. So who knows now...

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by jongies3
The Redline high performance line of synthetics are chocked full of esters and other good high detergency ingredients. Comes at a hefty price though! My vote would be to run a HDEO a few short OCI's to clean up any dirty engine, then use a quality syn of your choosing and start stretching out the OCI's to your comfort or UOA specified zone!

According to prior discussions here and proof provided by those members it's not what it used to be and while it does have some Ester it's not "Chocked full" as you describe. Still a good product though, I've used it myself.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

You are,confusing the TEOST test with the Sequence IIIG
Read this link. https://www.swri.org/sites/default/files/sequence-iiig-test.pdf

A higher score for piston deposits actually means less deposits in the above sequence testing, this is graded I presume (educated guesse)against a shading template sheet. Similar to the pass/ fail piston examples on the link. Really the link should be read,
It's counterintuitive compared to the TEOST which is a bench test. While the sequence testing requireds an engine run over the protocol and a tear down and inspection of the parts.

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
It is counterintuitive scoring system but the gf 5 requires less deposit weight


30 mg is the GF-5 limit.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Noack is a decent proxy for piston deposits. The lower the better.


Doesn't seem to be a correlation between Noack and deposits based on these test results. All the same oils it seems that were tested through these two ASTM test standards.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
You are,confusing the TEOST test with the Sequence IIIG
Read this link. https://www.swri.org/sites/default/files/sequence-iiig-test.pdf

A higher score for piston deposits actually means less deposits in the above sequence testing, this is graded I presume (educated guesse)against a shading template sheet. Similar to the pass/ fail piston examples on the link. Really the link should be read,
It's counterintuitive compared to the TEOST which is a bench test. While the sequence testing requireds an engine run over the protocol and a tear down and inspection of the parts.


Yeah, who knows what "Weighted piston deposits" means. There are no units on the value, so some other kind of rating system it seems. Maybe just a visual rating like the photos show?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Exacly, it has to be a comparison against a series of example photos with grades assigned. pistons unlike the TEOST apparatus would be difficult to scrape and weight all the deposits. So it has to be visual grading.

The run time of the test is perfect for a work week. Start Monday morning, stop
LAte Friday morning and the tear down and inspections procee Friday afternoon.

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
You are,confusing the TEOST test with the Sequence IIIG
Read this link. https://www.swri.org/sites/default/files/sequence-iiig-test.pdf

A higher score for piston deposits actually means less deposits in the above sequence testing, this is graded I presume (educated guesse)against a shading template sheet. Similar to the pass/ fail piston examples on the link. Really the link should be read,
It's counterintuitive compared to the TEOST which is a bench test. While the sequence testing requireds an engine run over the protocol and a tear down and inspection of the parts.


Yeah, who knows what "Weighted piston deposits" means. There are no units on the value, so some other kind of rating system it seems. Maybe just a visual rating like the photos show?

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by jongies3
The Redline high performance line of synthetics are chocked full of esters and other good high detergency ingredients. Comes at a hefty price though! My vote would be to run a HDEO a few short OCI's to clean up any dirty engine, then use a quality syn of your choosing and start stretching out the OCI's to your comfort or UOA specified zone!

According to prior discussions here and proof provided by those members it's not what it used to be and while it does have some Ester it's not "Chocked full" as you describe. Still a good product though, I've used it myself.



LOL, yeah the cSt of that product hasn't changed in at least the 15 years I've flowed it, neither has noack, hths, calcium level, mag level, phos level, zinc level. The only thing that has changed is the moly level went from 880 to 550 on average, who knows why they did that. On the other hand, Amsoil SS doesn't even closely resemble what it was 15 years ago, lol. Anyhow, if anyone is interested just PM redline, they will tell you what's in the oil and how and why it varies amoungst weights. The reason they do this is because they have nothing to hide, they are a true pao/ester based fluid. You can never have a high percentage of ester, you would have seal issues. It is a perfect balanced product, I've been using it 8 years w/o issue. Redline is the most upfront company about their formula, just ask. Everyone is hiding something, because explaining that they are just another run of the mill low additive group 3 is hard to say, even though that's the truth.

 

[StevieC]

You might want to spend some time in the VOA / UOA Sections. Both the older formula SS and the newer is posted there in the 5w30 weight and there have been drastic changes when they reformulated for LSPI. I guess the labs that ran the numbers are lying though... As for BaseStocks extreme pour points and Noack wouldn't be where they are on the SS product if it was mainly "inferior" Group 3, Further I have asked you to provide proof of your claims and you haven't. You speak nonsense, but most know that here anyway.

Here is a UOA running their older formulation in my Journey: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2017/12/full-22880-16874-report_2a.png

And here is the newer formulation VOA showing big changes to the calcium and changes in other additives, don't forget the stuff we can't see that doesn't show on these reports without paying the big bucks for them to reverse engineer what's all in an oil including basestocks.... https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/a...l-78246-14458-10_26_2017_10_44_12_am.jpg

Looks like an inferior product to me in both instances.

Go fix some HEMI ticks with some Redline magic moly nano-robot formula.

 

[burla]

Dude, you were the one talking about oil formula and change, before the lspi issue Amsoil SS still looked nothing like it did back in the day. Every year seamed like another change to another feature, whereas as redline, not so much. You made the statement redline isn't what it once was, but here there is no consequence for lying. Anyhow, as stated earlier in my first post, I like PUP for cleaning pistons. Had many experiences with guys changing over as Pennzoil synthetics are the most popular oil over there with the hemi.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by burla
Anyhow, as stated earlier in my first post, I like PUP for cleaning pistons. Had many experiences with guys changing over as Pennzoil synthetics are the most popular oil over there with the hemi.


Small critique here but generally the goal is to keep pistons clean, not clean them up. That's the claimed metric by which SOPUS has historically claimed PUP and PU before that, excel. The only oil I'm aware of which is actually designed to clean pistons is the Valvoline Restore product mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[dblshock]

10yrs on E091 TCW-3 spiked fuel, various HQ motor oils....

 

[JAG]

I wish we had the data to answer these questions definitively. I have my educated guess and I suspect it is easily above average in causing/allowing piston cleanliness, but I have no way to know for sure. My guess is Valvoline Premium Blue Restore. It costs over $70 per gallon, largely due to the high ester content. As for the more normally priced and formulated oils, I think the Euro manufacturers' oil specifications generally will allow cleaner pistons than oils not meeting those specs.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by dblshock
10yrs on E091 TCW-3 spiked fuel, various HQ motor oils....


Probably the best point made, us a great fuel cleaner and get that carbon away before it can harden. Carbon deposits start out a slime, which if you have the right fuel cleaner can be cleaned away easily.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by burla

Probably the best point made, us a great fuel cleaner and get that carbon away before it can harden. Carbon deposits start out a slime, which if you have the right fuel cleaner can be cleaned away easily.

TCW-3 is not a fuel cleaner. It's a two-cycle oil.

 

[rrounds]

Water injection works great to keep the intake, valves, pistons and combustion chamber looking new.

Rod

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by rrounds
Water injection works great to keep the intake, valves, pistons and combustion chamber looking new.

Rod

Yep. An old mechanics trick I learned in the '60's. Smokey even mentioned it. Not water injection, though. Slowly pour a cup of water down the carburator while holding the throttle at about 2k rpm.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by burla

Probably the best point made, us a great fuel cleaner and get that carbon away before it can harden. Carbon deposits start out a slime, which if you have the right fuel cleaner can be cleaned away easily.

TCW-3 is not a fuel cleaner. It's a two-cycle oil.


Yeah, technically it is a spec for two stroke oils that include carbon deposit cleaning and low ash, not the oil and gas two strokes of yesterday. Not much different from amsoil pi or redline s1, they just use a different detergent and a less pure base oil in most cases.