Piston Clean-Up

Messages
170
Location
Charlotte, NC
I'm wondering if you can chime in and help me over-think this. Why? Because that is what we do here on BITOG, right? My daughter's 2013 Corolla has about 196k miles on it. She bought it from a friend of mine who is a regional sales guy. He states that he always had the oil changed by a guy he knows at a Valvoline Quick Lube place and used full syn oil on 6k OCI. I changed oil on it and put in Valvoline FS HM. That was about 6k miles ago and it has burned about 2.5 quarts in that time. I changed out the original spark plugs, they actually looked pretty good given the miles on them; not oily. I changed the PCV valve (original wasn't bad either). I've done a little research and it seems there is a known issue. The pistons have four holes drilled in the oil ring groove. Those holes get clogged up with gook, so the oil can't drain back down into the crankcase, so it is forced up past the compression rings with nowhere else to go. The fix is to remove the pistons, clean out the grooves and holes, drill two additional holes and put new rings on. I am NOT going to do that. I was thinking of switching it to Castrol GTX Ultraclean 5W30 and adding a 1/2 quart of MMO. Then about a week ago I was reading the thread here "M1 vs PUP observations". Excellent thread BTW. That got me (over)thinking, maybe I should run PUP with their piston cleaning claims. But, PUP would be about $8 more a jug vs. the GTX. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts as they over-think this with me.
 
Messages
9,031
Location
Houston, TX
Do a Berryman B-12 Chemtool piston soak overnight (fill the cylinders with it) and it will break down the carbon in the grooves. Drain the oil, then do a couple of short OCIs. You should see an improvement in the oil consumption and you may have to repeat it in a few thousand miles to clean all of the carbon.
 

rollinpete

Site Donor
Messages
978
Location
Western Ma.
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Do a Berryman B-12 Chemtool piston soak overnight (fill the cylinders with it) and it will break down the carbon in the grooves. Drain the oil, then do a couple of short OCIs. You should see an improvement in the oil consumption and you may have to repeat it in a few thousand miles to clean all of the carbon.
That's a pretty good idea. I would just add make sure you leave the plugs out and turn it over a few times before starting the engine.
 
Messages
2,031
Location
Minnesota
I have the same issue with my 2008 RAV4, it burns quite a bit of oil. I have come to terms with it that given the age of the vehicle and it's worth on the market, that it's much easier to just feed it oil as needed. Oil is cheap. A 2013 Corolla with 196k miles, probably has a value of no more than $6k. If I were you, I too would just add oil as necessary and let it go. Concerning the Berrymans soak, I don't know much about how well it works. What are the chances it can break up the carbon in the ring grooves well enough to clear out these holes.
 
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Messages
8,306
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I wasn't aware of the 2013s having oil burning issues, but I know Toyota has had ring issues for a very long time in some of their 4-cylinder engines in the 90s through the late 2000s. My Accord burns about a quart every 1k due to the oil control rings getting gummed up, so I just top it off and it keeps going and going. I've tried PUP and other oils that advertise cleaning to no avail.
 
Messages
10,631
Location
Jupiter, Florida
I just used Berrymans B12 to de-carbon some pistons. It was cheap, at about $4 per can, and effective. However, the little bit I spilled did strip the epoxy paint off the hangar floor. Good stuff. Nothing else comes close. Make sure to get the stuff in the cans with the screw on top. The spray cans are not the same product. You will probably need 2 cans. Other suggestions: 1) Move pistons to mid stroke! Then put about 8 ounces in each cylinder. 2) Leave the oil drain plug out, as B12 will find it's way past the rings and into the oil. The stuff is like paint stripper and will destroy gaskets. I'd not take the risk of circulating that stuff in your engine. 3) Make sure the cylinders are empty before cranking it up (they probably will be) . If you crank it and there is B12 in the cylinders, and it sprays all over, it WILL strip your paint. 4) Before putting synthetic oil back in, Flush the oil pan by rapidly pouring a half gallon of gas into the oil fill and letting it drain out of the pan.
 
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Messages
25,785
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted by Cujet
I just used Berrymans B12 to de-carbon some pistons. It was cheap, at about $4 per can, and effective. However, the little bit I spilled did strip the epoxy paint off the hangar floor. Good stuff. Nothing else comes close. Make sure to get the stuff in the cans with the screw on top. The spray cans are not the same product. You will probably need 2 cans. Other suggestions: 1) Move pistons to mid stroke! Then put about 8 ounces in each cylinder. 2) Leave the oil drain plug out, as B12 will find it's way past the rings and into the oil. The stuff is like paint stripper and will destroy gaskets. I'd not take the risk of circulating that stuff in your engine. 3) Make sure the cylinders are empty before cranking it up (they probably will be) . If you crank it and there is B12 in the cylinders, and it sprays all over, it WILL strip your paint. 4) Before putting synthetic oil back in, Flush the oil pan by rapidly pouring a half gallon of gas into the oil fill and letting it drain out of the pan.
+1 on all that but I would probably flush the end out with Kerosene not gas. The small amount left in the bottom of the pan is harmless.
 
Messages
4,467
Location
Central Arkansastan
What about this? https://www.speediagnostix.com/new-oil-analysis/valvoline-premium-blue#:~:text=Valvoline%20Premium%20Blue%20restore%20is,lands%20and%20other%20engine%20components. Pricey, but for a one time use....

Valvoline+Premium+Blue.jpg
 
Messages
4,484
Location
Massachusetts
Another vote for Berryman B12. Been using it for years, especially in my small equipment to help stop Ethanol goop. Always wondered why it's only $4 / can as it works very well. Agree with Trav on the kerosene too.
 
Messages
252
Location
Illinois
If you go the berrymans piston route after the soak and drain put a couple drops of oil in the spark plug holes. That stuff strips the oil from the cylinder walls and you get a dry start. Let it soak for about an hour up to overnight.
 
Messages
5,747
Location
North Texas
Amsoil power foam did an awesome job on my lawnmower. Pulled the plug, stood it vertical. Sprayed the cylinder and let it sit over night.
 
Messages
139
Location
VA
As stated Honda has had issues with their oil control rings and the typical fix is by doing a piston soak overnight using Seafoam or MMO and then you pull the fuse for the fuel pump so you don't keep adding fuel into the cylinders and crank it over a few times to clear them out. If it's really bad then you'll need to do this multiple times and for best results you will need to attack it from both angles by also adding it into your crankcase to help clean from the bottom. I have used MMO on my Civic that's an oil burner to soak the pistons, I can't say whether that's helped or not as I've fixed some leaks along the way too. I plan on doing another piston soak when the next oil change is due, I'm also currently using Valvoline FS HM which seems to be highly regarded on here.
 
Messages
3,173
Location
Western S.C.
I'm interested in how this goes, because my niece has a 2013 Corolla with probably over 100k miles now, and I have a Prius which has a closely related engine, supposedly with the same weakness. I'm using Pennzoil Platinum, hoping that it will minimize ring-groove clogging. 2400 miles/quart is not so terrible for an engine with 196k miles. My '81 Mazda consumed nearly that much from the time it was new---but never got much worse, aside from various leaks.
 
Messages
183
Location
Georgia
Valvoline restore good has especially formulated for ring cleaning but expensive +1 previous member comments if you do want more money go with Rislone engine treatment 100qr
 
Messages
139
Location
VA
Originally Posted by CR94
I'm interested in how this goes, because my niece has a 2013 Corolla with probably over 100k miles now, and I have a Prius which has a closely related engine, supposedly with the same weakness. I'm using Pennzoil Platinum, hoping that it will minimize ring-groove clogging. 2400 miles/quart is not so terrible for an engine with 196k miles. My '81 Mazda consumed nearly that much from the time it was new---but never got much worse, aside from various leaks.
My Civic is around that, I think a qt every 2,000 to 2,500 miles, I keep a spreadsheet on all of my vehicles for oil changes and the mileage for when I add extra oil to it which helps me keep track of it. I had it in the shop for some other service and they also replaced the vtec solenoid gasket and pcv valve, supposedly had to remove the oil filter to replace the valve and I'm sure they didn't add any oil as it was low when I got the car back. I've replaced the pcv before without removing the filter so it is possible. The vtec gasket was definitely leaking as I found a video on YouTube that showed the leak from there and it went around the motor and down the front of the block and mine was the same way. I think the general consensus is a vehicle with high mileage a qt every 1,000 is considered normal but I've only had one vehicle in my life that was actually worse than that, a qt every 300 miles or so, basically check the gas and fill it with oil.
 

AJB0009

Thread starter
Messages
170
Location
Charlotte, NC
I'm interested in how this goes, because my niece has a 2013 Corolla with probably over 100k miles now, and I have a Prius which has a closely related engine, supposedly with the same weakness. I'm using Pennzoil Platinum, hoping that it will minimize ring-groove clogging. 2400 miles/quart is not so terrible for an engine with 196k miles. My '81 Mazda consumed nearly that much from the time it was new---but never got much worse, aside from various leaks.
Update:
I did change the oil in my daughter's Corolla. Went from 0W20 Valv FS HM to 5W30 Castrol GTX Ultraclean.
Before it burned about 2.5 quarts in 6k miles. I just added 8 ounces this weekend after about 3k miles since the oil change.
Is that just from switching to a thicker oil? I have no idea.
 
Messages
146
Location
Valley Forge PA
Sounds like you are making progress, maybe you don't want to go poking the bear on this one since its your daughters? I like the B12 stuff also but have only been using it on lawn equipment where i have much lower risks. No one mentioned the idea of using some or all ATF in the engine and actually running it for a short while. I have done that myself on older engines that came in pre owned vehicles with no history and found that a mix of 50/50 ran for a week on short trips seemed to produce some cleaning effect as the mix that came out was straight black filfth and caused no other harm to anything plus also I think helped to ID where some gasket was leaking externally that had probably been power washed off by a dealer.
 
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