Pics of a (deformed?) Hengst energetic filter element - 04 saab 9-3 8500 mi

[ZR2RANDO]

What you perceived as my "attempt at sarcasm " is my attempt to say what I already said. That cartridge showed signs of compression. Squeezing that cartridge either during mfg or into that can (spring too tight,cartridge too tall,whatever) caused the deformity that the pics show. Those pleats show curves to the right,curves to the left and gaps and narrows. If the cartridge was twisted during mfg'ing all the pleat endpoints would be skewed either all left or all right, but looking at the pictures that is not the case. Twisting during mfg would make it look more like diagonal parallel lines or a "spiral" look like the center tube on Wix filters.
Speaking of Wix, they have tight tensioner coil springs too,,I have had a couple that almost popped the top off when I cut them open. They (not all, but some) had some waves in them too...nothing drastic, but still obvious.

 

[JHZR2]

ZR2:

It is important to note that the pics of the filter are as they came out of the engine. This is not a spin-on filter that Icut open, but rather a cartridge type oil filter.

Not sure if you knew this, my impression is that you think I cut a filter open

JMH

 

[ZR2RANDO]

Yeah I see where I made it sound like that, but that's not what I intended. I knew that was a replaceable element. I was talking about when it was inserted into the element "holder". It was either squeezed there or previously during mfg.
I take it that you didn't install this (old) one so you didn't see it when it was new. If the new one that you just put in looked good then you will see how it looks when it comes out..
I agree with Tones a few posts back, I just think that old one was little on the tall side of acceptable specs somewhere and you saw the result.

 

[JHZR2]

Yes, that filter was the factory installed one.

Maybe the factory gets the slightly out of spec filters, figuring that theyll be changed by the dealer (especially on Saabs, which have free service for 4yr/50k) for the first number of changes, and they arent likely to make a stink.

I agree it was probably slightly out of spec, though if the endcaps are affixed by a machine and the media is slightly long, it could get glued in crooked in some areas, as filter guy mentioned.

Just a thought.

JMH

 

[TC]

"I'm not sold on the need to drain a factory fill early (on a brand new vehicle) because of debrs. So long as the filter can hold it and still provides adequate flow through, it seems to me that there isn't much to worry about, since all oil that goes to the engine passes through the filter first."

I'd agree that it's of modest consequence if oil or filter are changed out early in a new engine.

That said, the AC Delco/Detroit Diesel ASTM study revealed that particles in the 2-22 micron range cause most engine wear. And Grease's "Mercruiser" study revealed that even the PureOne filters have pores no smaller than 10 microns. Therefore, in a brand new engine when wear is presumably greatest, wear-causing metal particulates in the 2-9 micron range will be freely circulating within the engine. If for nothing but peace of mind, I opt to change oil and filter by 1,000 miles in my new cars.

 

[Bob The Builder]

I had a thought. If you measured the inside of the filter housing, measured the length of the cartridge and found out what the difference was, could you potentially shave a little material off of the placement feet that are located on one end of the cartridge to reduce the overall length of the cartridge and eliminate the compression of it after it has been tightened down?

 

[Filter guy]

Errrr..

Let me point out a little better what I meant.

In manufacturing the glue is metered into one endcap. The element, the media and center tube, are placed into the endcap with the glue by hand .

The other endcap has had a metered amount of glue put into it and now the first endcap with element is turned upside down and placed into it, by hand.

So there is a two step process of putting the element into the endcaps.

From there the "complete" element is sent through an oven to cure the glue in the endcaps.
This would mean a cartridge element is now assembled. If it were a spin on, then it would go to the next stage of production which is the canning process.


As for the compression....the media is precut to width by the paper company. There is a +/- tolerance. If the paper is on the plus size, this can lead to a compression when the person on the line puts the half assembled media and endcap into the other endcap.

In a lot of designs of filters, the center tube dictates the height by how it relates to the endcaps. If this is constant and the media is on the + size, it will compress when the element goes together. The pleats will look wavy in whatever direction the oil has forced them when the oil takes it's least resistence to flow. The pleat may not uniformly go one way or the other.

The key to a twisted media by a human operator on the production line is just at the base of the endcap. ( Which is what I saw in one of the pictures) There is where you will see the media lean in one direct in a uniform manner. In can occur in either or both endcaps. What the pleats look like in the middle may not be the same angle as the bottom of the pleat due to oil flow.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

F.G.
Say whatever you like. I am not buying what you are selling. The pictures of this used filter do not coincide with what you keep insisting on. The signs of compression here are obvious and I believe caused by a slightly too tall element being installed into the element holder, rather than compression during mfg. Of course without seeing the filter before install no way to verify that.
Maybe we can get some pics of new examples of that particular part number element..and eventually have some before/after shots would be cool.
I won't belabor this point any longer.

 

[Filter guy]

Well I don't sell Hengst..lol

But this picture:
http://www.imageark.net/img.php?id=102609

When I look at the top end cap I see the pleats in the first 1/2" all leaning to the right.
I would suggest if the filter was turned and we had enough pictures to see 360 degrees worth of that end cap, i'd suggest we'd see the same thing with most, if not all, of the pleats in the entire elements circumference..

With the other endcap the pleats look straight for the first 1/2".

When you take a picture and try to see a round object in a flat manner, it is tricky to assume what is around the edges and the other side from a flat view.


All it would take is for JHZR2 to confirm what the condition of the pleats around the entire endcap are and not just in the limited view from a flat photo, afterall it's his filter.

 

[JHZR2]

Actually, the pleats in some areas are straight!

I think the media was cut unevenly. Whether it was an operator error or a compression error from that point is open to any ideas.

JMH

 

[Filter guy]

I doubt the media was cut unevenly. It starts off like a roll of toilet paper. So when you measure across the roll, that is the pleat length. Next time your in the bathroom and looking at the roll of toilet paper on the roll, you're looking at the pleat length of media.

The pleat height..is actually the measurement from the center tube to the top of the pleat.

The pleat depth is the thickness of the pleat.

Now you know the three measurements of what a "pleat" is.

So if the roll of media is on the + side of the spec or even outside the spec for length, then that is where something has to give when the element is assembled. One possibility is compression of the media. As Yoda would say, there is another.