Performance Chips

[Swift101]

Hey Everyone,

So I know the general consensus is that performance chips don't work, but I've been looking at the following product (http://www.k5optimastore.com/products/lap3-performance-tune). A ton of good reviews on the Sonata and Optima forums, claims of 50 more wheel horsepower on 93 octane. Of course this tune involves switching out the stock spark plugs and adding an oil catch can.

The interesting thing about this chip is that it doesn't actually flash the ECU, just tricks the car into making more boost. As tempting as this sounds It has me thinking about long term reliability. If the turbo makes more boost then I would say it's putting more stress on engine components. For now it's not something I'm going to get since my Sonata is my only car but has anyone had luck with tuning chips?

-Thanks

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Swift101
Hey Everyone,

So I know the general consensus is that performance chips don't work, but I've been looking at the following product (http://www.k5optimastore.com/products/lap3-performance-tune). A ton of good reviews on the Sonata and Optima forums, claims of 50 more wheel horsepower on 93 octane. Of course this tune involves switching out the stock spark plugs and adding an oil catch can.

The interesting thing about this chip is that it doesn't actually flash the ECU, just tricks the car into making more boost. As tempting as this sounds It has me thinking about long term reliability. If the turbo makes more boost then I would say it's putting more stress on engine components. For now it's not something I'm going to get since my Sonata is my only car but has anyone had luck with tuning chips?

-Thanks


First off, any car that is OBD2 compliant(post-1996) cannot be "chipped" since the ECU does not have a removable EPROM chip. OBD2 cars can be tuned in one of two ways; the ECU can be reprogrammed through the diagnostic port or the ECU can be "tricked" via a "piggyback" harness and circuitry that modifies two or more of the signals sent to the ECU- causing the ECU to-hopefully-produce the desired performance result. If it is properly engineered a piggyback can be an acceptable tuning option; even Dinan now sells piggyback tunes(Dinantronics) for the Fxx cars. Piggybacks have been around for decades.

The device you referenced is a piggyback. Is it any good? Beats me, I focus on BMWs and Mazdas. The thing is, every vehicle manufacture builds a safety margin into its engine parameters, and any tune will eat into that margin to some extent. It's impossible for me to to tell whether the tune you mentioned is safe or not; I don't know enough about either the engine or the tune.

In my case, I have a reprogrammed ECU in my MS3 that added @35 hp and the car has suffered no ill effects. For me, the possible increase in engine wear is acceptable, but then I also only deal with tuners who are well known and have an excellent track record- Cobb, Conforti, Dinan, Hypertech, etc.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Swift101
The interesting thing about this chip is that it doesn't actually flash the ECU, just tricks the car into making more boost. As tempting as this sounds It has me thinking about long term reliability.


Your suspicions are on the right track. Making horse power is relatively easy, but making reliable/durable horse power is very hard.

Tricking ECU means just that, tricking. This means that the ECU is not getting the correct data to adjust safe boost and maintain a proper air/fuel ratio. It translates to good peak power, but that is not where the majority of the driving takes place, so you have no idea how that signal affects the low and mid range RPM, how it deals with knock, lean and rich running conditions. In other word you would be taking a big gamble.

 

[wemay]

There isn't much to add to MCompact's post. My background with this type of upgrade was with my Mitsubishi Evo8 using a Greddy ProfecE piggyback and HKS everything else (both are known and trusted brands). I never had a problem either. I haven't considered doing the same with my SFS 2.0T.

I would visit the KIA/Sonata boards and see if any takers have posted their experience with this tuner or with flashing the 2.0T in general.

 

[javacontour]

While I agree, generally, I do know that in the 1990s, you could add a chip to Ford's computer. The chip had new maps for fuel, spark, etc.

When my 98 SVT Contour got it's turbo, we didn't fool anything, we programmed a SuperChip with two sets of tables. One for 91 octane and one for 93 with a switch to choose between the two tunes.

So, there may be computers that will detect an external EPROM and use those tables instead of the factory tables.

Of course, while it was OBDII it was almost 20 years ago now, who knows what the current state of technology is.

 

[A_Harman]

Yes, putting a tune in a turbocharged vehicle can add a lot of power, but it can also cause a lot of problems, too. If you do it, use the extra power sparingly. Having to change out the spark plugs and putting on a catch can gives some comfort that the tuner actually ran for a significant amount of time to find engine mechanical problems related to the tune, and to take steps to fix them. My guess is the plugs and catch can are intended to prevent detonation.

If there is a warranty still on the car, it will be void when a different tune is put in the ECU. Manufacturers have ways of detecting if someone has futzed with the computer.

 

[Kawiguy454]

At about 40K miles i used a superchips programmer to "update" engine/tranny parameters via the OBD2 port on my 02 F150.

Immediately the engine was more peppy and the shifts were quick and solid instead of VERY mushy. Over 10 years later @180K+ everything still works perfectly and I'm confident the tune has contributed to the tranny lasting this long. ...Well that and Mobile1 synthetic everything.

The Wifes Pontiac G8 I used a laptop and HP Tuners software to reflash after mods and full exhaust and not a single problem last 5 years.

The advice to sift thru forums is the exact advice you should heed ...there are trailblazers out there willing to share what works well.

 

[threeputtpar]

While I cannot comment on the specifics of Hyundai, I've been running a tune on my A6 twin turbo for 70k miles now. The stock program would have peak boost at 9psi and taper down to around 7psi in normal driving.

With the tune, peak is now 16psi and 14psi is the taper. It has made a world of difference in the low end performance of a car that had pretty good low end to begin with.

Luckily for Audi 2.7t owners, there were so many very intelligent people out there willing and able to reverse engineer the Motronic's code that there's almost nothing that they cannot accomplish. For around $250, you can add 50-60hp and 70-80lb/ft of torque in the time it takes to mail the ECU back and forth.

FWIW - I'm on the original turbos at 197k miles now.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: Swift101
Hey Everyone,

So I know the general consensus is that performance chips don't work, but I've been looking at the following product (http://www.k5optimastore.com/products/lap3-performance-tune). A ton of good reviews on the Sonata and Optima forums, claims of 50 more wheel horsepower on 93 octane. Of course this tune involves switching out the stock spark plugs and adding an oil catch can.

The interesting thing about this chip is that it doesn't actually flash the ECU, just tricks the car into making more boost. As tempting as this sounds It has me thinking about long term reliability. If the turbo makes more boost then I would say it's putting more stress on engine components. For now it's not something I'm going to get since my Sonata is my only car but has anyone had luck with tuning chips?

-Thanks


mostly it ends in tears. ask anyone with a 6.0 powerstroke or a wrx/sti.

 

[earlyre]

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: earlyre


Which in essence only proves that cheap, no-name garbage found on eBay is worthless. What is your experience with flash or piggyback tunes?

 

[ls1mike]

Everything I own but the Equinox has a tune.

The Grand Prix to complimnet the blower mods.(done on a dyno/HP Tuners)

The Trans Am to change, well everything. (done on a dyno/HP Tuners)

The truck to firm up shifts, change torque converter lock up for towing and some various other changes to get the most out of the 6.0/4L80E. (Lots of info out there on how to do this)

Done correctly? No harm no foul.

The last few modified cars I had all had tunes and they did very well.

My 1998 Z28. 158,000 miles lots of track time.

The 2001 GTP 270,000 miles, Tune, full exhaust, smaller pulley

The 1998 Buick same deal. It is now at 170,000

Don't ever do it cheaply and if you can, get it on a Dyno.

 

[Clevy]

When it comes to tuning you either buy canned tunes from a known quality tuner then datalog so they can fine tune the map,or you get it dynotuned.
Having had both dynotuning is the best way to go.
Forget eBay and their nonsense resistors. They wire in to the maf sensor which fools the ecu into making the a/f mix richer. It's junk.

Talk to a real tuning company that uses real tuners like Diablosport or sct. Sct was big in the mustang world and I really liked their tuners. Lots of option.
The Diablosport are nice too.

 

[MCompact]

A lot of grenaded engines are due to owners that attempt to self-tune their cars. As ls1mike said, either get a good canned tune or else go to a tuner who knows both the engine and the platform.

 

[Cujet]

I drive a 2009 Ford F150 5.4L, throttle by wire.

The 5 star SCT "tune" completely transforms the truck. The stock throttle by wire was prevented from full opening until about 4500 RPM. This gave the stock engine a very flat torque curve.

Now, with the tune, it's full throttle, any time you ask for it. The difference is remarkable. Especially in the mid range, right where it's driven.

As for all out top end HP it absolutely gained a few HP. According to the dyno, it's 24 more HP peak. But better than that, it's 50 foot pounds more torque at 3750RPM !!!

Is it faster? ABSOLUTELY !!!!

 

[DoubleWasp]

Anyone who says tuning does not work, really does not know anything about tuning at all, and has certainly never done it.

I also had a tune done on my Navigator, and I got the same results as Cujet. Night and day difference. The lack of low/mid range was always one of my biggest complaints. full throttle never felt like it. Until I got into the higher rpms, I never got the full potential of the engine. I felt like I was driving a VTEC Honda or something.

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted By: MCompact

Which in essence only proves that cheap, no-name garbage found on eBay is worthless. What is your experience with flash or piggyback tunes?


me personally, none. never done it. never had the $$ to do it. which I know pretty much means i should **** on this topic.

the only person i even personally know who has had a vehicle tuned is my older brother. he has a canned tune from Ford Racing on his 06 Mustang GT. he had to send his ECU in to get it flashed. installed it with a Ford Racing CAI, that takes a Cone filter with Cotton Gauze over a paper cone. (filters come in a Ford Racing branded box)

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: earlyre
Originally Posted By: MCompact

Which in essence only proves that cheap, no-name garbage found on eBay is worthless. What is your experience with flash or piggyback tunes?


me personally, none. never done it. never had the $$ to do it. which I know pretty much means i should **** on this topic.


Stop, wait, What? Best post ever. Thanks for telling the truth.

 

[2004tdigls]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Swift101
Hey Everyone,

So I know the general consensus is that performance chips don't work, but I've been looking at the following product (http://www.k5optimastore.com/products/lap3-performance-tune). A ton of good reviews on the Sonata and Optima forums, claims of 50 more wheel horsepower on 93 octane. Of course this tune involves switching out the stock spark plugs and adding an oil catch can.

The interesting thing about this chip is that it doesn't actually flash the ECU, just tricks the car into making more boost. As tempting as this sounds It has me thinking about long term reliability. If the turbo makes more boost then I would say it's putting more stress on engine components. For now it's not something I'm going to get since my Sonata is my only car but has anyone had luck with tuning chips?

-Thanks


First off, any car that is OBD2 compliant(post-1996) cannot be "chipped" since the ECU does not have a removable EPROM chip. OBD2 cars can be tuned in one of two ways; the ECU can be reprogrammed through the diagnostic port or the ECU can be "tricked" via a "piggyback" harness and circuitry that modifies two or more of the signals sent to the ECU- causing the ECU to-hopefully-produce the desired performance result. If it is properly engineered a piggyback can be an acceptable tuning option; even Dinan now sells piggyback tunes(Dinantronics) for the Fxx cars. Piggybacks have been around for decades.

The device you referenced is a piggyback. Is it any good? Beats me, I focus on BMWs and Mazdas. The thing is, every vehicle manufacture builds a safety margin into its engine parameters, and any tune will eat into that margin to some extent. It's impossible for me to to tell whether the tune you mentioned is safe or not; I don't know enough about either the engine or the tune.

In my case, I have a reprogrammed ECU in my MS3 that added @35 hp and the car has suffered no ill effects. For me, the possible increase in engine wear is acceptable, but then I also only deal with tuners who are well known and have an excellent track record- Cobb, Conforti, Dinan, Hypertech, etc.


this statement is factually incorrect, at least when you are talking about 1999 and earlier vw tdi engines, removal of the eprom is, in fact the only way to change the stock tune

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.250781394938270.79741.115095405173537&type=3

this procedure is what I did on my own car (nope that isn't me in the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlizUxE9X6Q

 

[bdcardinal]

A proper tune can really change how a vehicle performs. However you have to be really careful in who you go to. There are a lot of supposed "tuners" who shouldn't even be doing oil changed at Jiffy Lube let alone altering the computer code of a vehicle.