Perfect Candidate for an AIO

[The Critic]

House guest is putting up her Gen 6 Accord for sale.

The car was in pretty rough shape (the paint looked dull) and it needed a clean-up before being listed for sale. The goal was to make it a 5-footer.

I think the car spent a lot of time under trees since there were yellow dots of sap over the entire car -- and they had been on there for a LONG time.

This was the perfect candidate for an all-in-one type product (AIO) - restore the gloss, remove some light surface hazing/marring and add some protection.

In total, I spent about 4 hours - 2 hours cleaning the car up, and about 2 hours on the AIO and wipe-down.

I started after 4pm and ended around 8, so no sun shots, sorry. And I learned that working in 100F+ weather, outside, was just brutal.

Products/Processes:
Wash with Meguiars Gold Class Soap and MF Madness Wash Sponge
Wheels were cleaned using Meguiars D140 Wheel Bright diluted 1:1
Clay using Nanoskin Fine Grade Towel (using car wash solution)
Removed baked-on/well aged tree sap with Stoner's Tarminator
Meguiars M205/Meguiars DMF6 for heavier correction on the hood
HD Speed/Buff & Shine Orange pad for the entire vehicle
Rupes LHR21ES Polisher was used for all correction
Final wipedown with Optimum Car Wax
Tires were gooped up with Chemical Guys G6 Hypercoat after the pictures were taken

DSC_0281 by thecritic89, on Flickr

DSC_0280 by thecritic89, on Flickr

DSC_0288 by thecritic89, on Flickr

DSC_0283 by thecritic89, on Flickr

DSC_0290 by thecritic89, on Flickr

On a more serious note, I am thinking about offering this service for $150. Do you guys think I will get any takers?

 

[qwertydude]

I don't think you'll get any takers. 4 hours is a long time for what amounts to wash and shine for a simple sale. A run of the mill wash and shine for a sale the going rate I used to charge was half that, $75 for the exterior only another $75 for the interior. Both put together I would be able to accomplish in the 4 hours you've just done on the exterior. And yes this was in the brutal SoCal sun too.

The reason being you're shining it up to possibly increase the resale value. The person selling the car doesn't want the car anymore so they don't want to spend any more than is necessary. I find the difference between an old unpolished car to a freshly polished one is not dramatic enough to justify how much it can raise the value of the sale.

Generally for these for sale wash and shines. I would vacuum the interiors, spot treat the bad stains with APC then give a quick water rinse of the upholstery with a tiny bit of woolite and vacuum it out with my little green machine. Wipe down the interior plastics with Armor All. Exterior would simply be a strong wheel cleaner. And for the body just a claying and AIO. Tires with whatever I had on hand, usually Armor All.

This would be a better use of those 4 hours and considering that I've covered more surfaces, albeit not to any level of perfection but definitely more than enough for a sale. That's what I would consider worthy of a $150 charge rate. And considering that's what's charged by the mobile detailers now for a similar service, you're overcharging and underdelivering. You have to remember most people will be stunned by 90% correction, trying to squeeze out that last 10% will take twice as long or more with finishing and jeweling passes. These do nothing but cost you time, money, and effort. Unless you're doing this for a concourse or car show, it's a waste. Especially for a car as beat up and crashed up as that Honda.

If it sounds like a lot of work and no pride in being able to perfect everything, welcome to the high pressure world of mobile detailing. You can kinda see why I gave it up. The competition is intense and you're in an arena where people's livelihoods depend on both the quality and quantity they can put out.

You have to consider the use. When I was in business I built up a reputation for being 100% honest with customers, never trying to upsell and informing them exactly what I'll do and if they wanted perfection, the toll it would take on the possible longevity of their paint. And then I had to balance that with what products I was using to minimize the cost to me in terms of product and time spent.

You probably know me for always seeming to formulate things on my own, that was sorta my edge on profitability. People had to buy so many of their arsenal of chemicals whereas a little bit of knowledge and experimentation can go a long way in saving money while not sacrificing performance.

 

[The Critic]

Thanks.
I was referring to a $150 charge for this level of service (wash/decon/AIO) -- and it would not be catered towards pre-sale cars. It would be offered as a routine wash/wax maintenance package.

With that said, I really doubt that you (or myself) will be getting 90% correction with the processes we described. I'd say on this Honda, I got 30% correction - and that's probably being generous.

I was working on a large Audi with a detailer last weekend, and the car was in for a 95% correction and coating. For the correction stage alone, we spent 12+ hours on the compounding process, and we still had final polishing afterwards. So I really doubt that anyone's getting close to 90% in a few hours. Then again, when discussing high-levels of correction, I am measuring the results by viewing panels in a dark room under various light sources; it's amazing how many more defects appear when you view the car inside a very dark garage.

I am inclined to believe that my work will be better than the average mobile detailer, however, this is usually a tough sell to the general public who cannot discern the difference. If I were to do this, I would be targeting the most discerning enthusiast who would see the differences.

 

[qwertydude]

If you're targeting the most discerning people, you wouldn't be mobile and trying to cheat the sun. Some of the guys I've seen that really catered to the Beverly Hills type would only work in a garage or would set up a pop up tent just for the car. And if you're going to that level a $150 job won't even cut it.

It just seems you're trying to extract value that isn't there. And doing that just won't get the word of mouth out fast enough. You need to focus on speed, I may sound like a broken record but you want to make money, in my best year I nearly raked in $45,000 mind you I was still going to school for engineering too. And I'll tell you the vast majority of that wasn't high end clientele from a constant stream of Ferraris and Lamborghinis. Really because you may only be doing some joe-shmo's Accord or Civic 19 out of 20 times, but get enough of them under your belt satisfied and you'll get references to the whales pretty quickly. I got all my whales in from references from the less affluent. NONE of my whales ever referred me to other whales, such is the nature of rich people. They don't tend to discuss "the help", selfish [censored] as they are, sorry but that's just how it is. The enthusiasts with just enough for a decent detail though would beam and brag about how great I could detail to everyone they knew.

Detailing really can be quite rewarding, it's definitely hard work, and perfecting technique is one thing. Perfecting the business is a whole 'nother bowl of chili.

I didn't say an AIO would give you 90% correction. But actually if you work it right you really can, try getting some finishing wool and use that rotary. Get that speed under your belt and again, the money will come a lot easier, in less time, less time means more cars. And more cars means more repeat and new business. Plus when I say 90% it means 9 out of the 10 visible swirls in normal lighting are gone, with at most some very minor hazing. A decent compounding will do that and with new SMAT abrasives will finish in one step easily. If you're nit picking in a dark garage with a sun gun, you're going for that last 2% honestly, the kind where no one will ever notice and will be ruined in the next wash by the owner.

What I'm implying is you're spending an inordinate amount to deliver marginal results at best over what the quicker mobile guys can do.

If you're targeting only the most discerning people get ready for slow business AND slow growth. It'll be slow enough to make you wanna quit. Do it for a living and you'll see real quick why you want to find every shortcut possible without killing your quality to the point where the customer notices. That's sorta why you gotta tailor your services to your customer. Really don't just target the whales, or you'll never get them. Get your base clientele satisfied, to do that you need speed and quality to compete. Because it's those mid level enthusiasts that are gonna land you the whales.

I had those high end clientele and it was a pleasure doing business with them and the profitability and personal satisfaction were great. I maybe only had one of those every couple of months well after my main business was running good and strong. Whales certainly didn't pay the bills they were more like a Christmas bonus. The regular clientele is where knowing your customer base and where the money actually comes from and benefits you most.

Because just good enough to wow the customer is the best you should strive for, unless it's a show car, you're wasting time. And time is money.

 

[Turk]

Wow, what a downer post, qwertydude.

 

[toneydoc]

On a brighter note, I think that you definitely will get more money, or your house guest will, out of that car now. It looks like a daily driver that has not been dogged out and has at least been cleaned up. If the interior looks and smells clean, then at least people will not be turned off from the first appearance. And first appearance to a car buyer goes a long way.

Good luck with the detail business. I am sure there are some learning experiences and growing pains as with any business.

BTW I think you did a fine job in a short time period.

 

[Turk]

The Critic,

You did very good given the circumstances. A shiny & glowing car will always get the sale over a dull one.

Great job.

 

[JHZR2]

The real question here before going into business advice is if this is for beer money or to replace the day job. I suspect it is the former, where some compensation for a job well done to a high level of quality is being performed.

If it's not required to get the job in order to eat, and remains a hobby, then why not ask a reasonable amount of money. $150 for four hours is like $37/hr, tax free. It's not great money but it's not bad either, and people don't have to hire him... But if there is a value proposition of a more detailed detail, more emphasis on the best products and quality application, it may be worth it to some. If he doesn't have to be booked all the time, the it's a non issue.

It sure seems like he has a group of folks that come for car work, so to capitalize upon that and then build some following isn't a bad idea.

 

[dparm]

I think you'll have better luck selling that car if you fix the clouded headlamps and obvious rear-end damage.

 

[doitmyself]

At what point does one have to acquire the associated "costs of business" doing this kind of work: insurance, license, etc.? Qwertydude, were "problem customers" much of a problem? What happened when you damaged someones car or were accused of damaging it?

 

[strat81]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I think you'll have better luck selling that car if you fix the clouded headlamps and obvious rear-end damage.


Sell a $50 "Headlight Restoration Service" and use one of the many available kits to do the job. Many headlights (such as those pictured) are salvageable.

Those that look like pages torn from the yellow pages... not so much.

IMO, a wash 'n shine and a vacuumed interior will increase the price of a typical used car by more than $150. OTOH, I wouldn't pay that because I have the tools and skills to do it myself. Location will play a role - $150 in NY, DC, LA, maybe. But not in my rural town.

 

[qwertydude]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
At what point does one have to acquire the associated "costs of business" doing this kind of work: insurance, license, etc.? Qwertydude, were "problem customers" much of a problem? What happened when you damaged someones car or were accused of damaging it?



Damage is what the walk around is for, a lot of car repair shops and even valet parking places do this. It's not just to assess the condition of the car, and for me to explain exactly what's wrong with the paint and to explain the detailing process to be used, but also it's to look for damage and have the customer acknowledge said damage and sign it. That will protect you from people trying to run scams for "damage".

As for the official costs of businesses. A lot of the mobile guys like myself. This was a cash only business, I'm pretty sure the guy mowing the lawns of the people in your suburb isn't licensed, bonded and insured either so it's about as legitimate as that sort of business. If you want to get licensed, bonded and insured and pay your taxes and fees. That will cost a lot more and at that point it's probably better to set up your own garage and really ramp up the production, again you need to focus on speed still, instead of going mobile. And that takes some real business acumen and for most people unscrupulousness that I wouldn't compromise myself with. I know too many "legitimate" businesses that take advantage of undocumented immigrants. And it's hard for the legitimate detail businesses to compete on the mass market with the mobile guys so they are forced to only work for the high end clientele but that business is hard to break into, start a legitimate brick and mortar detail shop and you might find yourself in hot water quickly, especially if you set up shop in someone else's "territory". The established guy will simply put sales on and advertise and you'll lose business until you fold, unless you can match his prices and that falls on profitability, so speed AND quality. The business world is harsh but that's again just the reality.

Originally Posted By: strat81
Sell a $50 "Headlight Restoration Service"


The going rate for a mobile headlight restoration is about $40. I charged $20, $15 if included in a package deal with another wash or wax service. I was undercutting everyone else while doing nearly an equivalent job which in the eyes of regular folks was exactly the same as the so called pro's which really most of them charging double than me didn't even do as good a job. I didn't wetsand but instead relied on the much higher yet still cooler cutting power and speed of wool and compound followed by a finishing step. I built my own modifying a cordless electric die grinder to accept a 3" wool polishing pad.

It did a fantastic but not quite as perfect a job as wetsanding on all but the most stubborn headlights, talking Volvo turbobricks whose headlights were notorious for their terrible yellowing.

But it worked nicely and I used my best sealant, this was before the silicon hardcoats were available. Headlights are a nice repeat business and are easy to do, I find the $20 price point is easy for people to swallow as a maintenance item. $40 is definitely gouging people and reduces business more than the profitability warranted. Considering some of the mobile guys are offering a wash and wax for that price. And people are left wondering why just the headlights cost as much as a wash and wax. It does take a little more specialized labor but the amount of time spent if you're really good doesn't justify charging $40.

And this is how I stayed in business and basically had a waiting list of people getting detailed and made decent money without needing to hope for a string of whales to keep me afloat. I offered a fair price and people knew it, quality that though wasn't perfect was enough to wow everyone but the nitpickiest people who saw the car, and finally not doing more than necessary so I could actually do more than a car a day, three on a good day, good for getting the word out and also not killing me physically with excess labor and it left me enough time to earn an engineering degree on the side. I could have made more had I done this full time.

But they say the quickest way to learn to hate something is to do it for a living. Now that I'm an engineer making more money that I could have hoped for detailing, it's now just for my own personal enjoyment to keep my cars shiny, and my own experience still tells me, you don't need perfection anyways on anything less than a museum pice. Good lesson to take away.

 

[SilverC6]

If you're serious about the business, you can be successful at it.

You need to check out Autogeek.net and get some insights and some professional products.

Power tools are a requirement.

It's all about service, sweat, and keeping your overhead low.

Hey, post #1000.....

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Turk
Wow, what a downer post, qwertydude.



He's telling it like it is from someone who has been in the business. Sometimes an honest reality check is a "downer"; people need to buck up and deal with it.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Turk
Wow, what a downer post, qwertydude.



He's telling it like it is from someone who has been in the business. Sometimes an honest reality check is a "downer"; people need to buck up and deal with it.


Wasn't about qwertydude's business. The Critic did not post about a business.

How does "I don't think you'll get any takers" have ANYTHING to do with a business??

It doesn't.

 

[genynnc]

Critic,

You should be able to make a $150 price point on an AIO, exterior only service... I would make it a $199 on a 4-door, mid-size sedan.

However, I don't know your market... and your market could be saturated with detailers since you are in CA.

It is all about how you position your business. Price accordingly but don't cheat yourself. I have made my 'maintenance' services/packages more of an 'convenience' service for my clients. They understand I focus on 1-steps and heavy corrections... but they also know that if I can complete the heavier/harder jobs that I can be trusted to accomplish the more mundane tasks. So they and their referrals trust me and know they are being taken care of holistically.


Stop thinking about the 'cost' of $150. If a customer says, "Hey, I can get interior and exterior done at the corner quickie wash..." Let them walk.

If they are "ok" with buffer trails and holograms in their paint...obviously they don't care about what you offer.

What YOU offer is:
Actual customer service- You care about your work. You care about the result. You care about meeting their needs. You care about identifying what they need. You care about what is important to them. You care about allocating their money in the areas they will appreciate/ need most. Etc.

Actual experience- You have worked/ trained with Joe. You have pictures showing vehicle turnarounds. You know when to use a rotary vs. a D/A and vice-versa. You know what haze looks like. You know how to decontaminate properly. Etc.

Actual knowledge- You know what products work with what pads in a plethora of situations. You know how to cut time without cutting corners. You know why a paint sealant lives a longer life than a wax. You know that wheel acid can't be used on uncoated aluminum rims.

The corner quick wash with a $150 interior/ exterior "mini detail" doesn't.

Don't sell yourself short.

Ever heard of 'market makers' on Wall Street? If not; read up. When you start a business in detailing... you are not only making a name but making a market. Just because Joe Schmoe isn't getting $100 for a wash and wax down the street doesn't mean it isn't possible.

 

[Vikas]

If I could get TheCritic's service at the price he is offering in my area, I would never ever pick up another detailing product or tool in my life. And I bet you guys, I would probably be saving money by letting it all outsource it to TheCritic.

 

[genynnc]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
If I could get TheCritic's service at the price he is offering in my area, I would never ever pick up another detailing product or tool in my life. And I bet you guys, I would probably be saving money by letting it all outsource it to TheCritic.


This is such a HUGE point... it is worth noting.

The accumulation of proper towels allocated for every task related to an exterior and interior detail, in the proper sense, would easily surpass $150... I have a very small population of towels for specified tasks and I'm well over $300 just for that. I know detailers who inventory $2K worth of towels... THAT'S TOWELS.

Throw in basics such as: polishers/compounds/polishes/blah...blah..blah... and it gets expensive REAL quick.

Find a reputable, local detailer... have them one-step it every year and wash/wax quarterly. Your car and your wallet will thank you not to mention that said local detailer will/should have the perfect pad/product combo to keep your ride looking excellent.

Oh right... and YOU are NOT spending your weekend busting your butt and trying to troubleshoot "why" the finish doesn't look as good as you expected with a $250 investment in a few pads, a polisher and a compound/polish.

If you enjoy this sort of thing and have time to spare... do it yourself.

Otherwise, if you are on the fence... Critic's job @ $150 is a steal anyway you look at it. And it's a solid, solid value even at $199.

 

[The Critic]

qwertydude - 1) this car was done for free for a house guest. The driveway was the only place where there was room available at the time.

2) I probably did not make this clear, but I have no intentions of making this into a full-time business, or even a part-time one. The reason behind the question was to get an idea of a target price for this service if it was marketed to this particular group. I do understand your thoughts (and concerns) if I was trying to market my services to the mainstream population; but since I am in a slightly different position, I may have the luxury to pick/choose the jobs I do.

3) We are going to have to agree to disagree on the standard of an acceptable finish. I would NEVER send a car out with any amount of DA haze or obvious micro-marring. I would much rather do a light polish to just enhance the gloss (and get little to no correction), than to remove most of the defects and leave the car hazy. I always check paint using LED lighting and also try to check in a variety of different ambient lighting conditions -- there are a lot of things that direct sun will not show which can significantly affect the final appearance of the finish.

With that said, after working with numerous detailers and attending the recent Meguiars NXT class, I do not think you're going to find many supporters of your "one-pass of SMAT-type compound" approach to correction. I have yet to see anyone be able to finish well (or even close to it) with this approach, and I even discussed your approach with some of the industry experts who were part of the testing team for those compounds that you frequently mention. Then again, if you are okay with some amount of haze and micro-marring, and you are also only inspecting with normal light, then perhaps this approach may work fine for your audience.

4) I agree with you that the quickest way to hate something is to do it for a living and depend on it as income. This is exactly why I am not a full-time mechanic or a full-time detailer.

dparm - This car is being sold as-is. The transmission is on its way out. I did take your suggestion and refinished the headlights tonight; I will post some pictures tomorrow.

For those who are curious - the headlights cleaned right up using Meguiars Unigrit 1500 and 2500 by hand. I then compounded with a Rupes Blue Foam pad and Meguiars M101, followed by HD Adapt and a Rupes Yellow Pad. The Rupes LHR75E Mini for all of the correction work. Opti-lens was used to seal the lenses.

Turk - Thanks for the thoughts. I think dparm's idea of the headlight restoration was spot-on; I do think this car will now get a better first impression.

gennyc - Thanks for the tips. You are correct in that many individuals and operations have created markets for their products. A good example is how Mercedes created a market for the CLA....was there a demand for that car before they made it? Nope.

Vikas - I might be heading to Boston in Oct for a brief vacation. Might.

 

[Vikas]

Will be coming to Boston "loaded" or will be using customer supplied tools and material?

By the way, please, please, please show me the haze pictures.