perceptions and reality

[Coprolite]

Leading up to the storm and during it, Kroger was running a sale on water and honored their advertised prices. Now there is nothing on sale. Kroger's "regular" prices are in effect, which people would rarely pay if they had a shopper's card. Nothing illegal about them not running sales.

BB didn't gouge as per the letter of the law. Water was available from other distributors for their regular case price, which BB never had established.

My corner Shell station was out of gas and the Exxon up the street had a huge line. I drove up the street to my usual Shell which is on my commute and filled up for the exact same price as I had a few days before. Those two stations were busy but didn't have a long line. Now things are a bit dicier, but with conservation I shouldn't need to refill my cars until things become a little more normal.

I think that the employees who had the gall to print up a case price and try to take advantage of it should be sacked for cause. I don't blame BB as a company though.

 

[MNgopher]

A lot of people looking to be offended in here...

Does anyone really think best buy had cases of water for sale normally? They sell them as singles along with pop, etc at the register. And we all know single bottled water is usually $1-2 right? Multiply the so for bottle price by the case and presto... Odds are bb doesn't even have a case price anywhere in their system.

As far as most damaging flood ever, perhaps. Better question is why? Yes the rainfall has been record setting, but from the stats I've seen within the realm of possibility. Above what most things are designed for, but plays into exactly what people are warned about: sometimes it can and does rain and flood bigger than designed for. Not unique to Houston.

I'll stop there, but a lot more could be said...

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
....

The agreement a retailer has with their supplier is that a packaged item cannot be legally sold individually. That's printed right on the labels. If they sold those at X amount a piece out of the package, that's a crime.


I suppose that could be a contractual term somewhere in the supply chain, one would have to know more facts.

It's quite common around here for small business to get bulk packs from Sam's or the like, the contents of which are clearly marked not for individual sale, and break them up and sell them at retail in their stores. Typically this is less money than purchasing comparable items through the old school supply network.

It's certainly not a crime, and I don't see how it's a breach of a contract - they were sold in a bulk pack. It's not any type of a secret - give them your sales tax number and you buy them free of sales tax with the understanding the tax will be collected on the final sale.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
http://fox59.com/2017/08/31/best-buy-apologizes-after-charging-43-for-bottled-water-near-houston/

BestBuy employees (single location; not a sanctioned corporate effort) charged almost $43 for a case of water in the Houston area!

That is appalling!!!!


Or .... is it?

Seems they priced the case based upon the single bottle, multiplied 24 times.

$1.79 x 24 = $42.96

Are you mad?
Maybe you should be.
But not because of what the store employees did.
Rather, that any of us pay more than 15 cents for a bottle of water at ANY time, ANY where.

None of us blink when we pay $1.29 or $1.59 for a bottle of water. (size dependent of course)

Why is this act at BestBuy "price gouging" then?

Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Not one person would complain if they said "For sale: single bottle of water $1.79 each. Limit 24 per customer."



PERSPECTIVE - keep it in mind always.






It's hard to describe scumbagery. But I know it when I see it.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Every single comment here goes to prove my point. [...]
With the vast majority of the other retailers holding pricing or donating (except perhaps for BestBuy), the "facts" as you describe them while drowned in the minutia as you are so fond of do not pan out. Are the remainder of the other retailers selling bottled water by the case at individual bottle pricing? If they were, then that would be the price the market would bear and it would be what it is, but that is not the case. Has there ever been widespread selling of bottled water by the case at individual bottle pricing (disasters not withstanding)?

BestBuy likely had the water prior to the disaster and therefore did not pay any higher price for it and yet they decide to sell at 10x the cost of a normal case of water (a 40 pack of 16oz Ozarka water is $3.99 at Costco)? I am certainly not an expert, but it sure smells like price gouging according to your definition - "Price gouging could be generally defined as altering the price of a product, during an event/catastrophe, to take advantage of panic buying or desperate conditions." By the way, I was not affected by the storm and therefore panic is not altering my perspective.


You are presuming that BB typically sells water by the case? I highly suspect they do not. They sell individual bottles, along with some other quick snack items, at the checkout. Not unlike a lot of other stores. Car dealerships have vending machines with expensive water. Video stores stores sell water bottles. My local Kroger (and I know this because I was there today) has bottled water cases for $3.39 on the shelves, but they ALSO have a vending machine at the front that has the same 20oz water bottle for $1.49. Same individual product marketed differently; two different prices.

There is zero price gouging going on here at BB. None whatsoever. They are selling individually priced bottles in a convenient case carry pack. They will likely never be charged with a crime because the price they charge is totally in-line with their normal pricing and not unlike other retailers also selling singular bottles. Further, I doubt that the pricing per case that BB gets is anywhere near what Costco can get, but that's a bit of a sideline debate. BB did not "decide to sell at 10x the cost" as you state. They marketed the bottle water at the EXACT same price as their practice was PRIOR to the event.

Is BB required to "donate" water? Nope. Are they obligated to sell it at a discount? Nope. Are they required to offer it in "cases"? Nope. Is BB required to do what other retailers do in terms of generosity or sales? Nope. In fact - it is a crime called "racketeering" if they collude with other retailers on pricing, or has that escaped you? BB made a PR blunder. Nothing more or less. They should not have marked a case at $43. They should have simply showed group-packaged product at $1.79 per unit. And not one person would have flinched. Hence - perspective.

Texas LAW clearly indicates that they didn't do anything illegal; it's not "price gouging" (deceptive trade practices as defined by TX code). You see it as though they "marked up" a case of water. But it can EASILY be argued that other retailers simply "discount" bulk purchases, down from individual bottle prices. The TX Law is going to look at the product as the retailer typically sells it. In this situation, it's typically individual unit sales. Does not matter that the case was advertised as a whole. The product was NOT marked up in any manner due to the event. There was ZERO deception here. The pricing was clearly marked. The pricing was in-line with previous practices prior to the event. It's not a good value; that's for sure. But it's not price gouging by any stretch.



By your logic, then many retailers price gouge their oils. If we can get a "bulk" buy of a full case of twelve 32oz bottles, at a discount, then it's "gouging" (deceptive practice) if they don't sell the individual bottles at the exact same "per bottle" price? The very thing you are accusing BB of is an every day practice at your local WalMart and a bazillion other retailers! Just because they extend the bulk discount into the individual product via marketing presentation, does not mean it's a deceptive practice to charge more for individual containers. Even if those containers are identical to the ones in the "case". How many times in our lives have we seen something like a case of 12 bottles for $10, but if you want only three bottles, you pay $1 each? The bottles are EXACTLY the same, but marketed differently, based upon a retailers choice to entice sales. They are not legally or morally compelled to extend the discount downwards to single units, nor are they prohibited from extending the expensive pricing upwards.

You may or may not be aware of it, but most groceries sell stuff at the checkout for MORE than they price the EXACT SAME ITEM on the shelves further back in the store. It is NOT deceptive, as the pricing is out for all to see. If you see candy bars on the shelves, contrast those prices to the ones at checkout. Same product, different prices at different locations! It's not illegal. It's not immoral. It's marketing and placement.

I once bought a case of safety sun-glasses at a Fastenal store. They were on clearance. They are a side item for sale; not their bread-n-butter so to speak. The price was $50 for the case of 12, or get singles for a unit cost of $5 each. Should I have then been able to compel the manager to now give me that same per-unit rate if I only wanted three of them, leaving him with a partial case? No! It is up to the retailer to decide how to market the product, and what price to charge for each marketing option. They do NOT have to extend the best pricing to all conditions.

In this BB water example, these are individual water bottles. These are available in many different combinations of sales presentation; some places offer them ONLY as individual sales, some offer them in cases, some (like my Kroger example) offer them multiple ways and even charge different pricing for those different presentations, even though the unit (bottle) does not change one bit. If BB had advertised that case of bottles at $72 (or equal to $3/bottle), then I would agree completely they were price gouging. But they didn't. They took the individual price (of which it likely is their common product offering) and marked it for sale as a package of individual bottles. BB is under no legal statue or moral obligation to offer a discount for bulk purchasing, despite your objection, or the gestures of good will other companies make.

I fully realize that we all have come to expect discounts for bulk buying. But that is NOT a legal precedent. Retailers are free to set pricing as they deem; free market. Just because BB didn't choose to offer a case discount, does NOT mean they "gouged" the price of the bottles. Instead, they chose to offer a case at the "bottle" price, because that's probably how they sell ALL water. It is HIGHLY likely that the local BB store had only 1(one) SKU for a bottle of water, and so they simply priced 24x of them accordingly at the checkout counter and threw in the custom cellophane carry-case for free!

I already stated several times it was a stupid marketing blunder. But if stupid were illegal, ours would be a different world to live in!


Your perspective and mine are at odds. Not the first time it's happened; likely won't be the last.

You may think I've gone "off" the rails, but at least I have the law "on" my side.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Are the remainder of the other retailers selling bottled water by the case at individual bottle pricing? If they were, then that would be the price the market would bear and it would be what it is, but that is not the case. Has there ever been widespread selling of bottled water by the case at individual bottle pricing (disasters not withstanding)?

One thing to ask, though, does Best Buy customarily sell water by the case? If someone wants to buy a case of water, they tend to go to Walmart, Costco, that sort of place. I gather Best Buy sells water as a convenience, rather than as an ordinary item they expect to sell by the case, or where people would ordinarily go to seek a case. Even convenience stores here, that rely on beverage sales for a significant portion of their revenue, rarely sell water by the case. They will gladly sell me 12 or 24 at the single price per, multiplied by the quantity, should I be so inclined. Occasionally, they'll have cases for sale, but that's the exception, not the rule.

Most people don't go to the gas station looking to buy oil for an oil change; they look for top up. A case of 12 would be better purchased at Costco over the local gas station. Similarly, here, I'd go to Best Buy to buy headphones or a TV, rather than the gas station or Canadian Tire, respectively, because although I could go to those locations for those products, I'd expect to pay more for a poorer product, poorer selection, and a worse price.

 

[Garak]

Heck, even looking at the original picture, it doesn't look like this Best Buy carries a lot of water. What's on display there would be cleaned out of a busy convenience store in a few hours on a hot day or one with a reasonably populated event nearby.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
It's price gouging, period.

The agreement a retailer has with their supplier is that a packaged item cannot be legally sold individually. That's printed right on the labels. If they sold those at X amount a piece out of the package, that's a crime.

They took a package, and jacked up it's retail price by 1000%. There's no perspective to this one. They either screwed their supplier by dividing an indivisible product in order to price gouge, or they jacked up the price of a package to price gouge, or both.

Under capitalist doctrine, they violated a very serious agreement and contract and broke the law no matter which way you cut the pig.


It is not a crime, and stop using "capitalist doctrine" as an excuse.

The reality is it will make the supplier upset if you do it to make a quick buck at their expense (i.e. cut out their profit on the individual pack). No supplier in its right mind would sue retailers in a storm selling essentials to victims in individual pack busted out of a 24 pack.

Getting caught price gouging in a storm for water is very bad for business reputation, it can get your store egged and no charitable work afterward will make up for it. (google pharma bro)

It has nothing to do with capitalism, it is just stupid retailer employees.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
[quote=2015_PS

time it's happened; likely won't be the last.

You may think I've gone "off" the rails, but at least I have the law "on" my side.


Absolutely. Lucifer is housing tons of people who had the law on their side.

It makes us so mad because we donate our hard earned money to help, while others take advantage. Kinda negates our efforts?


There is a type of person who's always looking to hustle a buck. As in they never ever do anything unless they're getting the better of someone. I have a few as friends. It's tiresome.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I will agree to disagree as we have in the past and likely will do so again and will not beat a dead horse, so I will leave this as my final reply (feel free to rebutt--I am letting it go now):

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
You are presuming that BB typically sells water by the case?
I am not presuming or assuming anything. Perhaps you are? What price is listed and for what quantity does it show in the photo that you posted? Before you go on about the "explanation" in the article, the average Joe would not have had that explanation when they saw the pricing as indicative of the social media flaming that happened afterwards.


Originally Posted By: dnewton3
They are selling individually priced bottles in a convenient case carry pack. They will likely never be charged with a crime because the price they charge is totally in-line with their normal pricing and not unlike other retailers also selling singular bottles. Further, I doubt that the pricing per case that BB gets is anywhere near what Costco can get, but that's a bit of a sideline debate. BB did not "decide to sell at 10x the cost" as you state. They marketed the bottle water at the EXACT same price as their practice was PRIOR to the event.
Convenient case carry pack? Cute. I never said they would be charged with a crime. Their penalty will be that dealt to them via social media and the like, short-lived perhaps, but there nonetheless. I do not for one minute believe that BestBuy pays the individual bottle cost for a case of bottles and thus the 10x the cost statement. Are they free to mark up a case at the individual bottle pricing? Of course, I never said they could not--but their timing is "off" do you not think?

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Is BB required to "donate" water? Nope. Are they obligated to sell it at a discount? Nope. Are they required to offer it in "cases"? Nope. Is BB required to do what other retailers do in terms of generosity or sales? Nope. In fact - it is a crime called "racketeering" if they collude with other retailers on pricing, or has that escaped you? BB made a PR blunder. Nothing more or less. They should not have marked a case at $43. They should have simply showed group-packaged product at $1.79 per unit. And not one person would have flinched. Hence - perspective.
I never said they were obligated to do anything--donate or otherwise, but when viewed alongside the other local businesses and their efforts, this particular BestBuy will be cast in a very poor light and rightfully so. It is OK for the other retailers in the area to support the disaster efforts, but not for BestBuy? Nothing illegal about it--but it will cost them in the long run.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
By your logic, then many retailers price gouge their oils [...]
What you say here is all true--I never disputed case quantity versus individual quantity or "the law being on your side" and I need no lessons on sales practices. I never said BestBuy actually committed a crime, I said "when I see someone selling a case of water for $43, it is [censored] near criminal." which is a figure of speech that you (I assume) took literally. With that said, the part that is missing in all of the text that I redacted is under normal conditions no one cares about any of this (myself included), not case pricing versus individual pricing or retail pricing versus wholesale or what is in the front of the store versus the back. But, the situation in Houston is not normal.

With that said I am out.

 

[4WD]

Cherry picked fool vendor - our Walmart was giving out free packs of water today - limit one per customer ... normal price after that fury -
That's not to say the store has a full inventory or normal prices on lots of food and materials - but drinking water trumps all ...

What I'm laughing about is how much emergency beer is still in the stores when you can't find gasoline or bread ...