Pepper Sprays

[123Saab]

I think some of you do not realize that most attacks on females happen at very close quarters.

It could be a person just walking by, Someone asking for the time or even another female asking for a light for a cigarette.

People who do this rely on surprise and if there is no situational awareness and hand to hand skills all the sprays and guns are useless.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: 123Saab
I think some of you do not realize that most attacks on females happen at very close quarters.

It could be a person just walking by, Someone asking for the time or even another female asking for a light for a cigarette.

People who do this rely on surprise and if there is no situational awareness and hand to hand skills all the sprays and guns are useless.


And if part of their training is to have the Pepper gel in their hand (attached to a lanyard) and of course paying attention to their surroundings, don't get themselves in a bad position and keep moving you'd be surprised how well people get around.

Someone asking for a light? Tell them no and watch them like a hawk.. (like everyone else)

Always taught my Daughter to stay aware, look at people when they walk by (no one wants to be attacking someone who already has ID them) and don't act scared. Does not hurt that she is 5' 11" and does not play victim well.

If someone is not right then speak up. Talk loud and tell the person(s) to leave and you'd be amazed how many people will jump in. (more witnesses that are not wanted)

Don't put your self into a bad situation. If riding a train stay in the first car. Bus? Ride next to the Driver. Walking? Walk with someone else or if in the dark carry a bright flashlight and shine it all around. Know what is going on.

Take care, bill

 

[Shannow]

LOL...

down here, CS is a prohibited weapon, and will get you $10,000 fine, 2 years Jail, and no chance of owning a firearm. Only Police can carry them.

Same for tasers. Only the Police, and they are looking at the taser "claymore" now...not sure how that's a policing thing.

Bullet proof vests same boat (if the Police need to shoot you, you need to be shot)...

Carry a knife, and it better be accesorised with a fishing pole.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Originally Posted By: 123Saab

but to assume that a woman would not benefit from basic Self defense training against a
I would NEVER tell a Female that she can not or should not defend herself at ANY means possible against a stronger male opponent. Period.


I don't think I ever said that. I said it would take years for a women to learn...(esp against a big tough street guy)

I think they should defend and the spray can be great.
Is a gun better? That was not asked and it may not be for some.
If my wife chose not to have a gun I would rather see her with a great bear spray than a boxing lesson

Here is a page from training manual of some sprays. I added the bear-commander and Vector
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.332349856814011.70772.100001169985072&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=334815496567447&set=a.334815493234114.71282.100001169985072&type=1&theater


It takes time to learn Self Defense for men as well as women, there will always be someone bigger, stronger and better than everyone of us. The point is a Self Defense class along with the Pepper Spray is better than sending someone out into the street with just Pepper Spray. As I said it is very easy to have that Pepper Spray used against you. A good Self Defense class teaches common sense, and very simple and effective techniques. Taekwondo takes years to master, and is more of a Martial Art than Self Defense. A true Taekwondo school teaches a lot of Kata, which takes years to master and is not very effective in a street situation. [Some Taekwondo schools gear strictly for Self Defense, it depends on the Instructor, but that's a whole different topic]. Self Defense classes teach things like using a key or other things for a weapon, proper ways to hold a key and use a key, a pen, or Pepper Spray for that matter. The proper way to enter and exit a car, where to park a car, and a buddy system to help avoid situations, things that can be learned in 10 weeks vs. 10 years. Is a 100 lb woman going to beat Mike Tyson after 10 weeks of training? Nope, will she become a Master or Instructor? Nope. Will she learn how to avoid a situation, be more relaxed and deploy that Pepper Spay, or some other means of defending herself? Yes. Talk to someone who actually teaches one of these classes, or took one you might be surprised.

As you noticed I'm not against Bear Spray or guns, but learning proper use of the weapons is a smart thing to do, and having some Self Defense training and Street Survival skills is a big help too.

Bill it sounds like your daughter was taught well, hopefully she's learned enough to avoid a situation, and if she's ever attacked she's had the training to use the spray effectively. That's what a good basic SD class is all about, she'll fare better than a women with no training at all.

 

[buickman50401]

http://www.defense-technology.com/aerosol.aspx?sub=1.3%

Those guys make a good product. Its what we used in the prisons. For close quarters, their foam products work well.

Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Honestly your money would be best spent on a good Self Defense class.

Pepper sprays are not going to do anything to a drugcrazed SOB.

Of course Situational Awareness is important as well.
You can learn that from a good martial arts instructor as well.

Agreed. And make sure self defense class focuses on situational awareness. Knowing what's going on in your surroundings is the first step in helping prevent becoming a victim.


Originally Posted By: MrRPM
you cannot build Immunity to OC gas (pepper spray) and it cause involuntary reactions and even temp blindness on top of just pain, so its effects would still be felt by non sober victims


You can build an immunity to the effects - i.e. learn to fight through it to the point that it is no longer as effective at stopping the threat.

I've watched an officer take a full face in training with no effect beyond some reddening of the skin on his neck. No involuntary eyes clamped shut. No coughing. Also on two of the many occasions I've had to use it I've seen it have zero effect. One was an inmate straddling another on the yard and pummeling another's face in. I hit him with stream in the eyes and the other officer got him with the foam right over top of my spray. No effect we had to tackle the guy. Same went for an inmate that was trying to beat one of our Lt's to death. Two streams in the face at the same time. Again, he had to be tackled... actually I believe he took a radio upside the head first and then had to still be wrestled off of the Lt.

I've been exposed to it so many times, both directly in the face and breathing it in in a cell flooded with the aresolized droplets of it that it doesn't have much effect on me. Breathing it in doesn't do anything for me other than open up my sinuses... no coughing, no choking, no trouble breathing. It was one of the reasons that I always got roped into doing cell extractions. A face full will still make me skip a few beats, but I can still keep functioning just fine.

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
There are handheld Stung Guns which will immobilize an aggressor.


You NEVER want to get that close to someone BEFORE having to *try* to stop them.

Agreed. We had plenty of the hand-held variety and we only used them for compliance control. Meaning that they were carried if escorting a really squirrely inmate who was already in cuffs and leg irons. We didn't even use them in cell extractions despite having a 5 man team... we had stun shield for that.

 

[Tempest]

There is a show on the Outdoor channel called the "Best Defense" I would recommend her to watch. While it's not a substitution for a real training class, it does open your eyes to many things, especially situational awareness.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
You guys laugh - guns simply aren't for everyone, and if you've ever been sprayed with a top quality OC spray, you'd think twice about making wisecracks. A 1.33% OC spray will make most men cry for a half hour.

I had my brother spray me with Vexor just to see if the stuff works (it was a hold my beer moment). It would probably melt a burrito. Pure body stopping pain.


I work with someone who can use it as breath spray. It has NO effect on him at all. And, of course...if someone is drunk enough, cranked out on meth, or dusted (PCP), he might not even NOTICE it.

It's n ot legal in some states...offhand, carrying it without a permit is a felony in Massachusetts.

 

[hattaresguy]

I'd recommend a Glock 17 with some Hornady Critical defense hollow points.

Pepper spray is worthless, either make the mental commitment to kill or just don't. Pepper spray isn't going to make much of a difference.

The first step is being intelligent about your surroundings and not putting yourself in a bad situation to start with. First park in a good spot that's close to light and or activity. Next walk briskly to the vehicle and get it ready to move as quickly as possible. IE no screwing around looking for your keys for 5 minutes outside, or screwing with your phone inside. Quickly open the door, start it, put it in drive, and lock the doors, than mess around.

Car jackers tend to go after people who are not too mobile.

 

[Scotty1981]

A gun isn't an option, my wife's employer won't allow employees to carry firearms onto the property, not even locked up in the car.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

You NEVER want to get that close to someone BEFORE having to *try* to stop them.

This..Avoidance of the threat is the only way.

A good self defense course is the only way.

If you are depending on a pistol or spray you may have one foot in the grave.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
You guys laugh - guns simply aren't for everyone, and if you've ever been sprayed with a top quality OC spray, you'd think twice about making wisecracks. A 1.33% OC spray will make most men cry for a half hour.

I had my brother spray me with Vexor just to see if the stuff works (it was a hold my beer moment). It would probably melt a burrito. Pure body stopping pain.


Drew for some situations OC spray will be fine to use and it is better than nothing. That being said I am not a tough guy or a big guy by any means and I have been pepper sprayed/maced/tear gassed/put in choke holds/joint locks and if someone wants to put there mind to it they can accomplish their goal to rob and maim someone it will happen. Trust me none of the above is fun nor would I recommend someone to try it for fun because each of the above nothing is fun about that junk being sprayed in ya face!

 

[dave1251]

I need to add the best defense advice I can give is to use common sense avoid dangerous situations, be alert, and always have at least one exit plan. If you or someone you love is not paying attention a Desert eagle and all of the self defense/firearm training will not do any good.

 

[Cogito]

That Clip-on thing was 50-90$. How much is the Vexor gel? They had a phone number to call for pricing, which usually is a bad sign. This stuff seems awfully pricey.

 

[2James1]

Another thing she may want to consider keeping in her hand or pocket is a very bright yet compact LED flashlight with a strobe feature...such as streamlight.

 

[Scotty1981]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
There are handheld Stung Guns which will immobilize an aggressor.


You NEVER want to get that close to someone BEFORE having to *try* to stop them.

I agree with the guys on if the person does not want a lethal means to defend then Pepper FOAM/GEL (not spray) works. I've seen hundreds of folks hit by pepper spray/foam/gel and 98% of them after being hit want nothing to do but get the stuff out of their face. Even after a good wash down (after in cuffs) they still have their attention on one thing which is getting their face cleaned.

This is with guys (and gals) who are drunk/drugged and sober. Being aware of the wind is very important with any of these but the foam/gel is 100% better than the spray.

The closer the threat the worst it will become. Once its hand to hand (or the perp has its hands on you) its a bad situation for you. A stun gun requires that hand to hand distance.

Tazors work better WHEN they go off.. (and I've seen plenty shoot only one hook) Plus they are only good for one perp then you are back to hand to hand distances.

My Daughter who is away to Collage carries Pepper gel like this when going back to her dorm. She is trained and practices with it a few times every other month when we go out shooting when she visits. Also keeps it on a lanyard just in case its knocked out of her hand. She can get it back since its tied to wrist.

A Firearm is not an option when you are 18-19 years old.

Take care, bill


Is this the same stuff Bill? It is cheaper and if is the same stuff, I don't mind saving a few bucks. http://www.amazon.com/Mace-Large-10-Pepper-Gel/dp/B000EP5UUQ

 

[LargeCarManX2]

A commercial grade of police/corrections pepperspray which streams/not sprays is what you need. Believe it or not, I like a can of wasp spray and you can pick it up for 3 bucks.

She might be better off with an alarm device and walking out of the place of business with others that park together.

 

[Scotty1981]

Alot of the time she works OT for extra hours and there is not always a group for her to walk with. Is police/prison grade peppergel legal for citizens to carry in ohio? I'm not sure about that. I'll google wasp spray right now. 3 bucks seems awfully cheap considering most of what I've been looking at was in the 20 to 30 dollar range.

 

[clarkflower]

Originally Posted By: Scotty1981
Alot of the time she works OT for extra hours and there is not always a group for her to walk with. Is police/prison grade peppergel legal for citizens to carry in ohio? I'm not sure about that. I'll google wasp spray right now. 3 bucks seems awfully cheap considering most of what I've been looking at was in the 20 to 30 dollar range.


1) I would not want to risk someones life to save 15 bucks
2) You could get sued for using wasp spray

I started a new thread related
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2585590

 

[clarkflower]

I just googled it and it says in some area's it is against the law.
I also found the below that says it does not really work.
Why take a chance when you can get the real thing.
U.S. residents tempted to avail themselves of this Internet-recommended self-defense option by stockpiling wasp spray would do well consider that federal law prohibits the use of any pesticide "in a manner inconsistent with its labeling." Likewise, some states forbid carrying substances for self-protection that aren't specifically authorized for that purpose.

The main ingredient of pepper spray is capsaicin, an oil extracted from chili peppers which temporarily causes severe irritation of the eyes and lungs, producing a strong burning sensation and difficulty breathing.

Wasp sprays consist of one or more insecticides such as pyrethrum or propoxur. While the toxic side-effects of such chemicals do, in fact, include eye and lung irritation in humans, they are chemical poisons, the main purpose of which is killing pests.

Notwithstanding variations among specific products (of which there are many), it's probably true that wasp and hornet sprays in general, because they're manufactured for use at greater distances, project further and more accurately than pepper sprays, which typically have a range of six to 10 feet. How reliably wasp and hornet sprays would actually work as a deterrent against human assailants is bound to vary, however, given differences in formulation and the fact that they weren't made specifically for that purpose in the first place.

To my knowledge, no one has ever tested or documented the effectiveness of insecticide sprays for self-defense.

One reader who accidentally received a dose of wasp spray while using it around his home told me he was surprised at how little irritation he felt. "A gust of wind caused a good splash of the spray to come right back into my right eye," he wrote. "I panicked and started to run to a source of water, only to find there was no adverse reaction at all, no more than being squirted with a water pistol. It took me at least ten seconds to get to the water, and I rinsed it off, and never felt anything from it."

 

[Scotty1981]

Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Originally Posted By: Scotty1981
Alot of the time she works OT for extra hours and there is not always a group for her to walk with. Is police/prison grade peppergel legal for citizens to carry in ohio? I'm not sure about that. I'll google wasp spray right now. 3 bucks seems awfully cheap considering most of what I've been looking at was in the 20 to 30 dollar range.


1) I would not want to risk someones life to save 15 bucks
2) You could get sued for using wasp spray

I started a new thread related
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2585590


I googled this and read an article on snopes about it, I have no intention of using insect spray on a person. I thought wasp was a brand of pepper spray when I initially read this before I had googled it.