People line up to buy pot in Co.

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How anyone can argue against weed legalization while alcohol remains much more dangerous, is a mystery to me. Or are all you anti-pot people asking for a return to prohibition?

Regarding 'driving impairment' - if anything that causes impairment really concerns you guys, what's the age limit? 65? 55? Motor skills and reaction time drop drastically by then.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

Good. That is YOUR decision... So your decision should be forced upon all others by government? That's a little Orwellian, no?


Kind of like ... forcing everyone to purchase health insurance ...
 
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Swarmlord
Originally Posted By: grampi

Then you're going about it the wrong way...nothing makes a kid want to do something more than their parents telling them not to do it...


Please provide the data to back THAT sweeping statement up.

Me telling my kids that they shouldn't play Russian Roulette will make them want to play it more?

Or is that statement merely for drugs and sex?

smirk.gif



Sure, I'll back it up for you...go tell your kids not to smoke pot or drink alcohol, they'll be doing both the next day...


Uh ... Highly unlikely ... mostly given their age. Nice try though.
 
Originally Posted By: Swarmlord
Kind of like ... forcing everyone to purchase health insurance ...

No one's forced you to do anything.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
There is some underlying science to support this.

The human brain is very complex and isn't completely developed until age 25. The use of any mind altering substance, drugs or alcohol affects that development.

Yes, don't give kids pot. We all agree. I haven't seen one person here that wants to give pot to kids. Why are we still arguing about this?

Originally Posted By: Mystic
where I worked I saw a lot of people who had used heroin and meth. You want to legalize those too?

This is another terrible stupid argument. No, nobody wants to legalize those things. If you can't see the difference then you aren't qualified to argue on this subject.

Originally Posted By: Mystic
According to what was reported on the news after pot was legalized in Colorado the amount of pot seizures at the border INCREASED.

OMG...WHAT?! Nobody could have guessed that would happen! What you don't seem to realize here is that the only problem is that the other states (or feds) have not yet legalized marijuana. Nobody would have to seize anything at the Colorado border if they weren't the only state.

I go up to Washington every year to get the good firecrackers, because Oregon has outlawed them. So do thousands of other Oregonians. I know, we are horrible horrible people and you should pay a lot of money to put us in jail.

Originally Posted By: Mystic
And pot is selling for huge profits in Colorado.

I fail to see your point. Viagra is also selling for huge profits in Colorado. Did Colorado go communist or something? You can't make a profit there?

The government of Colorado is also making a huge profit...so you could say, the CHILDREN are benefiting....

Originally Posted By: Mystic
There are scientific studies of the affects of pot use on the ability of students to be successful in school, etc.

Yep, since pot is illegal, it's easy for kids to buy. Drug dealers do not check ID, and they are easy to find. They often choose pot instead of alcohol because they can't get alcohol. All the dealers of that check ID. Either way kids shouldn't have pot, but a percentage will always try it. I don't know why were are still arguing about this, nobody wants to give pot to kids. *sigh*

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I will pass on the pot. It may be good for cancer patients but otherwise it is pretty much a waste of money. I will drink a little bit of wine and beer in moderation and not get drunk.

That's great. Don't make laws that say I can't smoke it and I won't make laws that say you have to smoke it. Deal?


Now, I know there are a lot of people that want to discredit me simply because I smoke pot. Let me explain why that is ridiculous:
This website is about oil. Would you take advice on oil from somebody who has never driven car, never owned a car, and never changed their oil before? No, you probably wouldn't. Why would you take advice on marijuana from somebody that has never so much as tried it? I am something of an expert. Several (not all) of the people in this thread have no idea what they are arguing about.

Let me point out I don't think people are wrong just because I disagree with them. The people against pot occasionally make a good point. Most of them don't have a point, so they complain about the children. Same thing happens in anti Walmart arguments.
 
Originally Posted By: Swarmlord
Kind of like ... forcing everyone to purchase health insurance ...


I wouldn't know. I am Canadian, and am extremely grateful for our health care system. I have not kept up much on the confusing labyrinth that seems to be ObamaCare save for the odd headline I'll skim on the news with horrified amusement.
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
How anyone can argue against weed legalization while alcohol remains much more dangerous, is a mystery to me. Or are all you anti-pot people asking for a return to prohibition?

Regarding 'driving impairment' - if anything that causes impairment really concerns you guys, what's the age limit? 65? 55? Motor skills and reaction time drop drastically by then.


We have testing for people over a certain age up here for that very reason actually.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
There might be some people who disagree claiming it has no impact on your ability to drive and no negative effects on coordination or judgement.


These people have either never smoked pot or have smoked waaaaaaay too much. Either way, arguing with them is pointless unless your aim is to further entrench them into their position.

If it is any consolation to those who think that the decriminalization of something is somehow a nation or state saying "this is OK to do" I would point out that pretty much everywhere narcotics have been decriminalized crime has gone down; likely due to the fact that no criminal element is necessary to supply the market. Isn't it encouraging to know that if we do not CREATE markets for criminals that society will not patronize criminal enterprises?!


Look at what you said above uc50ic4more. Let me quote you one more time: 'I would point out that pretty much everywhere narcotics have been decriminalized crime has gone down;'...That is you word for word. You were not talking just about marijuana. There are different kinds of illegal drugs-the narcotics family is one. And in at least one country that I can think of, even heroin use is legal.

I am not going to bore you with the history of drug use in the USA and how people get addicted and all of that. But when various kinds of drugs were legal at various times people did use and become addicted to many different kinds of drugs, such as morphine, cocaine, etc. Some of these drugs were in everyday products and people became addicted. WHEN THE DRUGS WERE LEGAL IT CAUSED A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

Marijuana may be great for people suffering from cancer but there are numerous studies about harmful effects especially in young children and teens. It is a little difficult to do well in class if you are stoned. 23% of high school students in the USA have used marijuana recently. Making it legal will probably result in higher use.

I have much more experience than you think when it comes to drugs. Where I worked we saw a lot of people who had used drugs. I have seen people who used a lot of marijuana with short term memory loss. I know of two young people in Colorado who died recently using synthetic marijuana. I know of a young girl who was a high school prom queen who looked very different after one year of abusing meth. I have seen people coming off heroin highs.

It is true that alcohol has caused many problems in society also. But justifying the use of other drugs because some people abuse alcohol is like saying you use your poison and I will use mine. Moderate use of alcohol is okay. I would not recommend a SINGLE USE OF METH. And I would rather be able to think clearly rather than suffer short term memory loss.

It is a waste of a person's life to turn to drugs.
 
Here in Oregon they claim to have had 45,000 registered medical marijuana patients by July 2010. They also charge $200 per patient per year. That's $9,000,000 per year and then they charge $50 to register your grow site, or $100 for a replacement card if you lose it, the original "card" is only a piece of paper.

The state already makes that much and currently they make nothing on the sale of marijuana and it's not yet allowed for recreational use!
 
Never ever tried weed, but one thing people need to realise is that legalising something doesn't make it compulsory...


and as others have said, when my FIL had a newsagents, he checked ID for cigarette sales, dealers don't.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Marijuana may be great for people suffering from cancer but there are numerous studies about harmful effects especially in young children and teens. It is a little difficult to do well in class if you are stoned. 23% of high school students in the USA have used marijuana recently. Making it legal will probably result in higher use.

That is merely an opinion that you cannot backup with a single fact. As I already pointed out, moving marijuana sales to licensed dealers just like alcohol would result in a reduction of use in kids. Most teenagers will tell you weed is easier to buy than alcohol. I can't back that up with a fact either but my opinion is just as important as yours.

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I know of two young people in Colorado who died recently using synthetic marijuana.

You do realize if they legalized real marijuana nobody would ever use "synthetic marijuana", right? You are correct in the fact that synthetic marijuana has caused a lot of problems recently, including several deaths. Not real marijuana. All those deaths are caused by real marijuana being illegal. We need to make marijuana legal to protect those children from the synthetic marijuana!
 
I found a list of what the Oregon medical marijuana program supports:
http://public.health.oregon.gov/diseases...feechanges.aspx
Emergency Medical Services: $1,750,000
Drinking Water Program: $3,000,000
School Based Health Centers: $500,000
CCare (family planning): $1,150,000
HB 2380 (midwives): $30,000
Trauma System: $300,000
Seniors Farmers Market Program: $5,000

In other words, the marijuana is helping the children, the schools, and a lot more...
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

The fact is kids have been smoking cigarettes for a hundred years, they were always easy to get and still are.
Kids get booze when they are teenagers and party, they still get booze easy enough today.
Those horses are out of the barn now they want to let another even more miserable one out.


I grew up in a drug/tobacco free household with extremely moderate alcohol consumption (dad might have a beer a week, mom might have a glass of wine a couple times a month if that). My relatives were a bit different...everything under the sun, but did kind of try to hide it. I first smoked pot at age 14. I didn't touch a cigarette until I was 15. I didn't drink unattended/for recreation until I was 17. Cigarettes were easy to get, but not as easy as pot. Alcohol was comparatively difficult to get, though senior year the floodgates seemed to open.

Alcohol almost train-wrecked my life, and to an extent I am still reeling from the consequences. Tobacco scares me to death as I am now addicted to dip and worry that I won't quit before it harms my health. It sounds stupid to not be able to stop putting dead plant matter in your mouth, but the cravings can be really difficult to beat, especially with dip having about 50% more nicotine per "serving" than a cigarette. Over the decade that I used pot though, about half of that decade practically daily, I never had to deal with any major consequences with it. No arrests, no crazy behavior, no spilling spit cups, no lighting the yard on fire, no hangovers. Just good clean fun. There are only two reasons I don't use now...if I had an accident at work, regardless of fault, I would be drug tested. The second reason is that drug dealers are usually [censored] people and obnoxious to deal with. A store would be so much better.

I hope the rest of the country follows suit, and I hope that one day the federal ban will be lifted. Big tobacco, big alcohol, and big pharma can go cry a river.
 
The Netherlands have effectively made dope boring and most of the drugs smoked there are by tourists,not locals.

As far as dope affecting students let me put it this way. Stupid people are stupid with our without dope.
I smoked and sold hash and week throughout my entire career as a student. I missed so many math classes my teacher told me to come for the final and I walked out with a 92%.
My English classes were all 90% and sciences in the low 90%,and I promise you I was utterly baked all day long.
Contrary to popular belief weed doesn't make you stupid however if you are stupid it may amplify the effect.
I don't smoke dope anymore. I lost interest due to the massive consumption in my youth.
Once a society achieves making drugs boring then kids don't think they are "cool" and they are "bad" because they do drugs.
Make it available and teach kids it's no big deal and I assure you they won't think its a big deal.
I grew up with the children of hippies and none of them smoked any dope even though their parents grew the stuff. Their upbringing taught them that dope was no big deal so for them it wasn't therefore when their teen rebellion hit dope wasn't the outlet chosen.
The current drug enforcement system is broken. Jails filled with potheads. Great for the police prison state,bad for people as a whole.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
WHEN THE DRUGS WERE LEGAL IT CAUSED A LOT OF PROBLEMS.


I will repeat myself: they cause MORE problems when they are illegal, because not only are people abusing them whether they're legal or not; but now they're also criminals on top of addicts who need help.

Normal, responsible users of recreational drugs?: They're also now criminals.

I will ask again: How's that working out for you so far? You have a per-capita prison population higher than North Korea and China and Cuba, and you have an entire population marginalized as criminals when they weren't hurting anyone. This is wrong. Simply dead wrong and it is ruining innocent people's lives.

People either need help because they are abusing one of a littany of things (marijuana not usually being one of those things...) or are decent, law-abiding people who are responsible with their recreation. There is legal alcohol (which is so much worse than weed) and legal gambling and tobacco (talk about stupid, useless and deadly!!!) and driving, and swimming. People engage in these activities of their own volition and free will knowing the consequences and risks. WHY SINGLE OUT MARIJUANA? So many more lives are destroyed by REAL dangerous poisons like alcohol, tobacco and gambling; but worse yet, so many innocent, responsible people are being harmed BY THE LAWS THEMSELVES.

This is akin to the health care industry being the #3 cause of death in the U.S. - The laws are working against both the abusers and the casual users, and the rest of the population is not affected at all - WHY IS THIS A CRIME.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
Believe what you want....

In other words, you can't prove your point........


No, in other words people believe what they want and they only believe info from sources that support their side of the argument. I could sit here and post links all day long that show marijuana use is not harmful, and people will just claim the information is biased.

You tasked me with finding links that prove cannabis is harmful. I did. I even found a link from a pro cannabis site. When I asked you to provide proof of your side, you chose not to. As I said before, I'm for legalizing pot, but saying it's harmless is ignorant.

Originally Posted By: Number21

Originally Posted By: whip
Can you show me any links stating it's harmless.

Of course, but I'm not going to waste my time, because you will just say those were form people trying to legalize... *sigh*

See my comment above. Your inablity to prove your point speaks much louder than any link posted. *sigh* (Does that look as condescending as I think it does?)
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Mystic
WHEN THE DRUGS WERE LEGAL IT CAUSED A LOT OF PROBLEMS.


I will repeat myself: they cause MORE problems when they are illegal, because not only are people abusing them whether they're legal or not; but now they're also criminals on top of addicts who need help.


More to the point, when the drugs were legal, Dupont and Pharma felt that they were missing out, so they petitioned and lobbied to make it illegal...so that they could get in on the action...and they are the worst pushers of all...
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Mystic
WHEN THE DRUGS WERE LEGAL IT CAUSED A LOT OF PROBLEMS.


I will repeat myself: they cause MORE problems when they are illegal, because not only are people abusing them whether they're legal or not; but now they're also criminals on top of addicts who need help.

Additionally, they were made illegal nearly 100 years ago. People back then were stupid, for lack of a better word. We know SO much more about these drugs today, we should not be using the laws that were written then.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
See my comment above. Your inablity to prove your point speaks much louder than any link posted. *sigh* (Does that look as condescending as I think it does?)

I don't need to prove anything to you. You need to prove why something should be illegal, not the other way around. Do you know how Google works? Go find your own links, you can find the same ones I do. There are a million studies on both sides that prove each other wrong. Studies, in general, are useless for this reason.
 
Originally Posted By: Number21
Originally Posted By: whip
See my comment above. Your inablity to prove your point speaks much louder than any link posted. *sigh* (Does that look as condescending as I think it does?)

I don't need to prove anything to you. You need to prove why something should be illegal, not the other way around. Do you know how Google works? Go find your own links, you can find the same ones I do. There are a million studies on both sides that prove each other wrong. Studies, in general, are useless for this reason.


Did you miss the part of THAT SAME POST YOU QUOTED where he CLEARLY states he is for LEGALIZING pot?

Selective vision much?
 
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