Pentius UFXL PLXL7317 O-Ring gasket failure.

[ZeeOSix]

What does the Pentius tightening instructions say on the box or filter?

I just looked at both the Carquest Premium and MicroGard Select I have, and both have a flat square cut silicone base gasket. The MicroGard Select shows on the label to tighten the filter 3/4+ and the Carquest Premium shows on the label to tighten the filter 3/4-1 turn after initial gasket contact. I'd bet the Pentius show to tighten at least 3/4 turn.

I always shoot for 3/4 to 7/8 turn. I'd never go with 2/3 of a turn, and also why I mark the filter when it first contacts the seat so I know if I get the 3/4 to 7/8 turn.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I don’t think anywhere it is said to bottom out p style gaskets, but could be wrong. They have the same instructions as to turns. Torque stopper means to me it prevents over tightening, and if it goes even a little further a nice score mark is on the aluminum filter mount.

Most P-style filter gaskets will allow the filter to bottom out if the filter is torqued to the specs. It did on my Tacoma when I torqued the Toyota filter to spec. Same was true on a couple of motorcycle filters that had a P-style gasket and they were torqued to spec for the filter. Once the can hits the seat is when the torque value will be quickly be achieved, and perhaps that's what's meant by "torque stop". Ya torque it until it stops ... hence "torque stop".

This video has been posted in a few other threads in the past - think you've been in those threads too. This is from Premium Guard, and clearly shows that the can will bottom out on a P-style base gasket when the filter is installed correctly.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Toyota Denso Japan used a silicone gasket, a p type.

Were does it say the P-style base gasket on Denso Japan filters is silicone? Has anyone done a burn test on one to verify?

Don’t know if the topic filter has the p type or square cut type.

It was mentioned and shown to be a square cut flat gasket.

There was discussion as to why Mobil 1 didn’t use silicone when specifying their Asian filters, unless it was black silicone.

Where is this discussion/thread? What was the reason?

 

[Hootbro]

Has it been exceptionally cold for some period in your locale recently? PLXL7317? The ones I see has red silicone but standard non captured type. Assume you installed it? If installed during warm weather, possible not tightened down quite enough and cold temp contraction allowed seal to leak. Strictly speculation.

First thing I though of when I seen the thread title was contraction from cold weather vs. when it was installed.

Had the exact issue with a Toyota OEM oil filter many years ago of installing it hand tight in the warmer months and then leaked at the first cold snap. I just gave it another tighten and got about another 1 full turn and went about my business.

 

[Fair enough]

Most P-style filter gaskets will allow the filter to bottom out if the filter is torqued to the specs. It did on my Tacoma when I torqued the Toyota filter to spec. Same was true on a couple of motorcycle filters that had a P-style gasket and they were torqued to spec for the filter. Once the can hits the seat is when the torque value will be quickly be achieved, and perhaps that's what's meant by "torque stop". Ya torque it until it stops ... hence "torque stop".

This video has been posted in a few other threads in the past - think you've been in those threads too. This is from Premium Guard, and clearly shows that the can will bottom out on a P-style base gasket when the filter is installed correctly.

I took the time to look at a few filters. They all say something like 3/4-1 turn. A Toyota filter states 3/4 turn. The torque stopper feature is to prevent over tightening, and is separate from the instructions. Nowhere does it say turn to stop. Now we have people saying torque stopper is per instructions which is wrong advice. I may torque to stop by hand I don’t know. I eyeball 3/4 turn is my method, plus by feel of tightness. Next time I should look at the mount for a mark or even groove. Video is wrong too and I noticed it the first time I saw it.

The silicone red gaskets are on the earlier toyota filters like I pictured once before to your disbelief they had the flat bypass spring, which they do. Now you disbelieve the gasket. No problem but argue with someone else about these things.

I saw in my looking Pentius had the 3/4-1 turn on the box flap not the filter. So that makes it easier to miss. Most here don’t look at this because we know it.

I think far more important in this thread is post 29 where the tech said gasket was extruded. Good luck if the engine was ruined, and the cause is the oil filter according to the tech, who is the expert witness. My car is past the drivetrain warranty now so I can do what I want they aren’t fixing anything for free anymore. I don’t want to argue about that either.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I took the time to look at a few filters. They all say something like 3/4-1 turn. A Toyota filter states 3/4 turn. The torque stopper feature is to prevent over tightening, and is separate from the instructions. Nowhere does it say turn to stop. Now we have people saying torque stopper is per instructions which is wrong advice. I may torque to stop by hand I don’t know. I eyeball 3/4 turn is my method, plus by feel of tightness. Next time I should look at the mount for a mark or even groove.

This is right out of the Toyota Factory Service Manual for my Tacoma. I used Toyota OEM filters for the first 3 oil changes and followed this procedure. The filter can at the time might have also has the torque spec on it, I don't have any photos of the fitters back then. When I torqued it to spec (13 ft-lbs) the base contacted the fitter seat before the torque wench clicked at 13 ft-lbs, then right after the filter hit, the wrench clicked right away. It also says the turn amount is 3/4, which is right about what it turned with 13 ft-lbs of torque per my notes I took on that oil change. So at least then the installation per Toyota's instructions did bottom out the filter and left a mark in the seat. I talked about that in previous threads and posted photos. Most oil filters that I've seen with a P-style gasket will have a torque spec printed on the can.

Sounds like you really don't know what's going on with your installations since there's no real details involved, like exactly how far the filter turned or the torque involved ... just spun on by hand. Turn it to 3/4 turn or whatever it says and see if it bottoms out, and look at the filter seat for marks.

Video is wrong too and I noticed it the first time I saw it.

Yeah, a big oil filter company like Premium Guard is all wrong in the video.

The silicone red gaskets are on the earlier toyota filters like I pictured once before to your disbelief they had the flat bypass spring, which they do. Now you disbelieve the gasket. No problem but argue with someone else about these things.

I saw in my looking Pentius had the 3/4-1 turn on the box flap not the filter. So that makes it easier to miss. Most here don’t look at this because we know it.

I think far more important in this thread is post 29 where the tech said gasket was extruded. Good luck if the engine was ruined, and the cause is the oil filter according to the tech, who is the expert witness. My car is past the drivetrain warranty no⁴w so I can do what I want they aren’t fixing anything for free anymore. I don’t want to argue about that either.

If you don't want to have a technical conversation about stuff, then don't respond. Hopefully there wasn't any engine damage on the OP's car ... doubt there was since it happened in the driveway while idling and hopefully he shut it off quickly.

BTW, the dealership could have tried to deny warranty too if someone didn't install an OEM part right and it caused a failure.

 

[rstsco]

What does the Pentius tightening instructions say on the box or filter?

I just looked at both the Carquest Premium and MicroGard Select I have, and both have a flat square cut silicone base gasket. The MicroGard Select shows on the label to tighten the filter 3/4+ and the Carquest Premium shows on the label to tighten the filter 3/4-1 turn after initial gasket contact. I'd bet the Pentius show to tighten at least 3/4 turn.

I always shoot for 3/4 to 7/8 turn. I'd never go with 2/3 of a turn, and also why I mark the filter when it first contacts the seat so I know if I get the 3/4 to 7/8 turn.

Took one out of the case and took these pictures (fresh off the press). They're pretty comprehensive, if I say so myself.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Double post, see following post.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Took one out of the case and took these pictures (fresh off the press). They're pretty comprehensive, if I say so myself.

View attachment 318411

View attachment 318412

Basically the same instruction icons are on the MicroGard Select and Carquest Premium label on the filter. Most filters use similar instruction icons.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Label on a Fram Ultra, and it's on the box flap too.

 

[rstsco]

I only got a hair over half a turn past gasket touching the engine before I could no longer turn it by hand when I changed the oil on Friday. The only time I ever used a wrench to tighten a filter was playing with a new torque wrench and wanted to compare the actual torque value to my hand tightening. Pretty darn close, or at least close enough (so far).

I may get out the torque wrench and see if it will tighten more. Then again, maybe cleaning off the filter and using fresh gloves will be enough, too.

 

[rstsco]

Label on a Fram Ultra, and it's on the box flap too.

Although yours has fewer pictures in the instructions, I feel it's more realistic. It shows to clean the base, then apply oil to the gasket using your finger. Mine doesn't show cleaning the base and shows using an oil can to apply oil to the gasket. Who does that?

 

[Fair enough]

This is right out of the Toyota Factory Service Manual for my Tacoma. I used Toyota OEM filters for the first 3 oil changes and followed this procedure. The filter can at the time might have also has the torque spec on it, I don't have any photos of the fitters back then. When I torqued it to spec (13 ft-lbs) the base contacted the fitter seat before the torque wench clicked at 13 ft-lbs, then right after the filter hit, the wrench clicked right away. It also says the turn amount is 3/4, which is right about what it turned with 13 ft-lbs of torque per my notes I took on that oil change. So at least then the installation per Toyota's instructions did bottom out the filter and left a mark in the seat. I talked about that in previous threads and posted photos. Most oil filters that I've seen with a P-style gasket will have a torque spec printed on the can.

View attachment 318408

Sounds like you really don't know what's going on with your installations since there's no real details involved, like exactly how far the filter turned or the torque involved ... just spun on by hand. Turn it to 3/4 turn or whatever it says and see if it bottoms out, and look at the filter seat for marks.


Yeah, a big oil filter company like Premium Guard is all wrong in the video.


If you don't want to have a technical conversation about stuff, then don't respond. Hopefully there wasn't any engine damage on the OP's car ... doubt there was since it happened in the driveway while idling and hopefully he shut it off quickly.

BTW, the dealership could have tried to deny warranty too if someone didn't install an OEM part right and it caused a failure.

You just repeated what I said about instructions, no turn to stop. The dealer already said they shouldn’t use aftermarket from what I read. If engine damage, at the mercy of the dealer to replace engine or not.

 

[kschachn]

I don’t think anywhere it is said to bottom out p style gaskets, but could be wrong. They have the same instructions as to turns. Torque stopper means to me it prevents over tightening, and if it goes even a little further a nice score mark is on the aluminum filter mount.

If you're a goofy gorilla perhaps. Nearly 500K on my old Sienna and I don't have a "nice score mark" on the aluminum mount. Many, many Toyota OEM or Denso filters were used over the past 26 years.

 

[Fair enough]

If you're a goofy gorilla perhaps. Nearly 500K on my old Sienna and I don't have a "nice score mark" on the aluminum mount. Many, many Toyota OEM or Denso filters were used over the past 26 years.

I don’t know what you are reading, or writing. People, and in the video, are saying stop turning till filter bottoms, or stops. I say it’s not on the product instructions that way.

 

[ZeeOSix]

You just repeated what I said about instructions, no turn to stop. The dealer already said they shouldn’t use aftermarket from what I read. If engine damage, at the mercy of the dealer to replace engine or not.

You're missing the point. I never claimed that the instructions say to turn the filter until if stops turning and bottoms out, nor claimed it was in any instructions anywhere on the filter or in the manual.

What I'm saying is when the filter is torqued to spec or even turned to 3/4 from initial gasket contact that the filter will basically bottom out or be very close to it because that's typically how filters with a P-style base gasket are designed to work. The goal on a filter with a P gasket is to totally capture the gasket in the groove so internal pressure can't blow it out. The OEM Toyota filter bottomed out on my Tacoma when torqued to 13 ft-lbs, and it turned right around 3/4 turn. So next time you change a filter with a P-style gasket keep close attention to how much it actually turns from the point the gasket first contacts the seat. Mark the filter when it first makes contact, then watch that mark and see how far it turns before it stops turning - ie, "torque stops". Or better yet, actually use a good torque wrench on it if there's a torque spec called out like in the Toyota service manual.

And of course a dealer is going to say don't use aftermarket parts, but again they could just as well deny a warranty if someone didn't install an OEM part properly and that caused a failure and damage as a result.

 

[Fair enough]

You're missing the point. I never claimed that the instructions say to turn the filter until if stops turning and bottoms out, nor claimed it was in any instructions anywhere on the filter or in the manual.

What I'm saying is when the filter is torqued to spec or even turned to 3/4 from initial gasket contact that the filter will basically bottom out or be very close to it because that's typically how filters with a P-style base gasket are designed to work. The goal on a filter with a P gasket is to totally capture the gasket in the groove so internal pressure can't blow it out. The OEM Toyota filter bottomed out on my Tacoma when torqued to 13 ft-lbs, and it turned right around 3/4 turn. So next time you change a filter with a P-style gasket keep close attention to how much it actually turns from the point the gasket first contacts the seat. Mark the filter when it first makes contact, then watch that mark and see how far it turns before it stops turning - ie, "torque stops". Or better yet, actually use a good torque wrench on it if there's a torque spec called out like in the Toyota service manual.

And of course a dealer is going to say don't use aftermarket parts, but again they could just as well deny a warranty if someone didn't install an OEM part properly and that caused a failure and damage as a result.

You make me have to come back and say I didn’t miss the point. The instructions don’t say turn to stop. You put a lot of words about that simple fact. So the video guy is wrong. Turn to stop is a limit statement, because people would over tighten reading it and blame the oil filters. This way they only scratch the mount base and can’t do more harm than that.
The tech didn’t only say don’t use the aftermarket filters, the story is he also said the gasket was extruded. Which is the end of the imaginary supreme court case over a ruined engine.
I try to use feel to tighten my oil filters above all other ways, and will stick to it. i look at the turns but it isn’t making much difference as I’m stopping by feel anyway.
Let’s hope you stop, I’ve reached my limit.

 

[ZeeOSix]

You make me have to come back and say I didn’t miss the point. The instructions don’t say turn to stop. You put a lot of words about that simple fact. So the video guy is wrong.

Never claimed the instructions said to turn the filter until it stops. Said if it's turned 3/4 turn or torqued to 13 ft-lbs like the instructions show then the filter hits the seat ... that's what it did on my Tacoma with every Toyota OEM filter with a P gasket. You continue to not understand that simple point. Here's the nice score in the filter mount from the edge of the can digging into the seat. Sure, it's outside the gasket area, but it shows that the filter bottoms out on the seat if installed per the service manual.

Turn to stop is a limit statement, because people would over tighten reading it and blame the oil filters. This way they only scratch the mount base and can’t do more harm than that.

Actually turning it until it stops (ie, the "torque stop" feature) wouldn't over tighten the filter. And it would most likely hit the filter mount seat if actually installed per the instructions of 3/4 turn or 13 ft-lbs, at least on the Toyota filters. Your install details are nebulous (blind hand tightening only) so you really don't know if your filter is being installed as instructed in the manual.

The tech didn’t only say don’t use the aftermarket filters, the story is he also said the gasket was extruded. Which is the end of the imaginary supreme court case over a ruined engine.

Yeah, so? And it seems the reason the gasket blew out was because the filter wasn't as tight as it should have been. No oil filter with a flat gasket should be less than 3/4 turn (shot for 7/8 to be safe - use a filter cap wrench if required) from initial gasket contact as shown by the instructions on the PGI made filters.

I try to use feel to tighten my oil filters above all other ways, and will stick to it. i look at the turns but it isn’t making much difference as I’m stopping by feel anyway.
Let’s hope you stop, I’ve reached my limit.

Like I said, your installation method is obviously nebulous, and therefore you have zero info to prove the Toyota P gasket filters will hit the seat or not. I saw it first hand as described. Let's hope you "torque stop" since you still don't get it, lol.

 

[Fair enough]

You make me have to come back and say I didn’t miss the point. The instructions don’t say turn to stop. You put a lot of words about that simple fact. So the video guy is wrong. Turn to stop is a limit statement, because people would over tighten reading it and blame the oil filters. This way they only scratch the mount base and can’t do more harm than that.
The tech didn’t only say don’t use the aftermarket filters, the story is he also said the gasket was extruded. Which is the end of the imaginary supreme court case over a ruined engine.
I try to use feel to tighten my oil filters above all other ways, and will stick to it. i look at the turns but it isn’t making much difference as I’m stopping by feel anyway.
Let’s hope you stop, I’ve reached my limit.

13 ft/lbs would be for a Toyota oil filter since that’s the factory part. I suppose you think telling someone they don’t get it makes it so. Think about how that speech is no longer about oil filters. Torque stop is a feature, not a procedure.

 

[ZeeOSix]

13 ft/lbs would be for a Toyota oil filter since that’s the factory part. I suppose you think telling someone they don’t get it makes it so. Think about how that speech is no longer about oil filters. Torque stop is a feature, not a procedure.

You think the Toyota service manual is just for use at the factory for only parts installed at the factory, really? Guess all the Toyota dealerships better throw away their service manuals. What's the next excuse, lol. Torque stop ... yeah, a feature that stops the filter from turning any more when the filter bottoms out on the seat. And what happens when they are installed per the Toyota serviced manual. Try it on your Toyota with an OEM filter with a P gasket and torque it to 13 ft-lbs to prove it to yourself.