Stuff like this is always a concern with these Internet videos. One really has no idea what went on in the video, the entire thing might be a fabrication for as much as anyone knows.
Pentius UFXL PLXL7317 O-Ring gasket failure.
- Thread starter Samurai1225
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Both the Bosch and Motorcraft where "rattlers" ... so the guts were loose for some reason. It wasn't from the filter cartridge "collapsing" as he mentioned ... way too stiff in compression. He didn't realize that pleats can become "wavy" from use, and he assumed the wavy pleats were from the cartridge "collapsing".
An Audi forum member claims he had two Bosch fail .. what do you think of these
If an internal O-ring can dislodge for some reason and causing a lose of some oil flow, then yeah that would be a big concern.
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Old news but the filter does move slightly away from the mount. Does Pentius test their filters like this, I don’t know. Haven’t delved into their specs.
Ironic you should mention a "Tacoma", and why I asked OP about ambient temps there. Many years ago now, I owned a 3.4L Taco I installed a new filter in the summer heat. Standard nitrile square edge type sealing gasket. Not the easiest filter location. No issues for months until a Winter cold snap set in, then noticed a small drip from gasket area. Like you, just added a little turn with a band type wrench. Leak sealed. I always attempt ~3/4 turn after gasket contact. Possible I missed it, as noted location a stretch to reach.
Possible something similar happened to OP, but resulting in a more extreme leak. Really would love to see the gasket as an OP sourced pic.
Well guys and girls... With the benefit of hindsight this may be on me. I'm not seeing a defect in the filter or gasket. Anyone with a better trained eye can chime in if you see something I don't. Like I mentioned I've been changing my own oil for many years. I didn't do anything thing differently with this filter change than I have with hundreds of others. I'm man enough to own it.... I feel like it was probably not tightened down enough. It just took almost 4 months and 3000 miles to let go and fail. No signs of an oil leak prior to the failure.
Don't beat yourself up. Be thankful it happened when and where it did. The inconvenience and cost of a tow to the dealership service department is a small hit compared to replacing an engine.
Thank you for all your posts and honesty. All of us are guilty of doing things we later regret. You've probably saved countless others from making potentially the same mistake.
FYI, when I installed the same brand and model filter on my Honda yesterday, I was only able to hand tighten just over half a turn, even though I'd oiled the gasket as always before installing. Before your post, I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought. Now I'm going to be checking it intermittently to see if it can be hand tightened any more along the way. Thank you.
Was the gasket found by the dealership tech to be blown out of its groove similar to shown in the photo? Did the dealership take any photos before they removed the filter?
They may have changed the design. As you probably know, some canister oil filters have what is sometimes called a “torque stop” where the metal can touches the mount and prevents further turning. I actually prefer that kind as it helps to control the amount of compression.
I don’t see anything obvious. Maybe measure the gasket height and width all the way around.
In that first photo I was depicting how the gasket had blown out the side of the mating surface when the seal failed.
Per the photos, the PLXL7317 has a flat gasket, so even when tightened 3/4 turn after the gasket first contacts the seat, there should still be a small air gap - the can should not bottomed out between the can and seat. It probably would if it was a P style gasket. If the air gap is too large because the filter wasn't tightened down enough, then that could add risk of the gasket blowing out from internal pressure.
Can't recall seeing result same as pic "depiction", but if accurate, not tightened quite enough seems best conclusion here. To my eye, gasket itself looks ok. And perhaps extended colder temps an aggravating/contributory factor in timing.
On the plus side, it seems no harm done and a lesson for the future.
On the plus side, it seems no harm done and a lesson for the future.
Curious - what's your tightening procedure?
I do ~2/3 turn after gasket touches the mating surface. Maybe mine's a blowout waiting to happen....
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I thought the topic was a Pentius oil filter which uses a silicone gasket. Not about Bosch, etc etc. But it still is a free country to express more or less.
Toyota Denso Japan used a silicone gasket, a p type. No USA maker has made the square gasket out of silicone that I heard of, and there may be a reason why.
Don’t know if the topic filter has the p type or square cut type. There was discussion as to why Mobil 1 didn’t use silicone when specifying their Asian filters, unless it was black silicone.
Regarding topic don't you ask the individual who changed the topic ?
I would guess those other companies would never use silicone for the gasket because of cost. They probably have too many bean counters but silicone is a cost difference. Remember to always pay your respects to the Premium Guard family of factories and also the seperate company Pentius who provide you with a complimentary silicone gasket.
Silicone tends to be softer than nitrile rubber. The softer the seal material is, the smaller the clearance between the filter and the mounting surface needs to be to prevent the seal from being extruded under pressure.
Here's a chart that shows the maximum allowable clearances based on pressure, for seal materials with three different hardness values. (The actual clearance between the filter base plate and mounting surface is the radial clearance, which is half of the diametrical clearance shown in the chart.)
If we apply this to the Pentius PLXL3593A that I have sitting in front of me, which has a gasket that sticks out by around 1.2 mm, and M20x1.5 threads, the minimum number of turns to prevent seal extrusion at 300 psi would be 0.63 turns for the softest material shown in the chart, and 0.53 for the hardest material. With either material, the filter would bottom out at around 0.8 turns.
So with the softer seal material, there's a lower margin of safety for under-tightening the filter, at least in terms of the number of turns required. The softer material will compress more easily though, so it won't necessarily require any more torque to achieve an appropriate clearance compared to a harder seal material.
Edit: Comparing a Pentius XL to a FRAM Ultra, the gasket on the Pentius definitely feels softer. However, it doesn't stick out as much as the FRAM gasket does, so it is designed to have a smaller clearance than the FRAM at the same number of filter turns, as should be the case for a filter that uses a softer seal material.
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I tighten mine by hand then I put my 14 flute wrench on it and snug it down a little more. Maybe 1/8 more of a turn.
You can always torque it to spec. Im not worried about it being too tight because the wrench removes it with ease.
My next filter will be a p style gasket. I plan to bottom the filter out per instructions.
You can always torque it to spec. Im not worried about it being too tight because the wrench removes it with ease.
My next filter will be a p style gasket. I plan to bottom the filter out per instructions.
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I don’t think anywhere it is said to bottom out p style gaskets, but could be wrong. They have the same instructions as to turns. Torque stopper means to me it prevents over tightening, and if it goes even a little further a nice score mark is on the aluminum filter mount.
