Pentastar Replacement Rumor

Jeepers! That's an over-tuned grenade. Has anyone learned what we really we need is 1700-4500 rpm big torque. Peak HP = worthless in anything other than a competition engine. I am not liking the pentastar legacy fly-apart valvetrain in some GME.

My (leased) engine sample is way undertuned, and maybe if they didn't crush the marginal diameter exhaust pipe in half(!) to clear rear suspension it would breath easier. Duh! Way to go morons.

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The 4 cylinder turbo's make way more torque at low RPM than any naturally aspirated anything. 2.4 liter iforce in the new Tacoma produces 317 ft lbs of torque at 1700 RPM. Yes that is correct - look it up. I think 3.6 Pentastar peak is under 300 and peaks at 5000 RPM.

Turbo 4 cylinder much better off road - if you can keep the rods inside the block.
 
Yes when on boost - light throttle they lay down. 2x ATM = 2x torque. So If a big four banger is making 150 lb-ft its should make close to double that on boost if you can cool the charge adequately.
I am just saying you shouldn't tune a warranty powertrain to competition levels just to show a big HP number. Especially in a big SUV for crying out loud. I haven't looked it up, but I wonder if they are going to a semi-closed deck block and multiair on the highly tuned variant like in the Alfa motor. OTW bye-bye head gasket in street use.
 
Yes when on boost - light throttle they lay down. 2x ATM = 2x torque. So If a big four banger is making 150 lb-ft its should make close to double that on boost if you can cool the charge adequately.
I am just saying you shouldn't tune a warranty powertrain to competition levels just to show a big HP number. Especially in a big SUV for crying out loud. I haven't looked it up, but I wonder if they are going to a semi-closed deck block and multiair on the highly tuned variant like in the Alfa motor. OTW bye-bye head gasket in street use.
I believe the 3.0L hurricane is a closed deck design, so I imagine this 2.0L will be too. It based on the rumors it looks like it’s gonna have similar cylinder pressures as the 3.0L. And those seem to be doing fine so far.
 
Spray bores do not sound good for longevity
Spray in liners (the name is somewhat inaccurate, its a chemical adhesion process) have been around for 30 years. They are very durable and are very low friction. The only downside of these is that if you score or otherwise damage the cylinder bores for any reason, the factory procedure will usually be to replace the block, whereas with other engine types you could re-sleeve it. That being said, by the time a modern engine block wears out (assuming the motor is maintained) you are talking about a 250k to 300k mile lifespan, which is excellent and the car doesn't owe you anything at that point.
 
I like the numbers on that engine, if they pan out. Should be great. I've driven the Wrangler with the current 2.0 and it feels great.

It makes sense that it could be a 4 cylinder version of the Hurricane.

As for me, I'm sticking with my Pentastars for the long run. I'm not a huge fan of turbos when planning to run a vehicle beyond 300,000 miles. I'm very confident in getting my Pentastars well past that because I have seen so many do it before. But if I kept them for 150k or less, I'd love to have that engine in either of my Jeeps.
 
The 3.6L will probably be around until the JL goes away. I'm not holding my breath either, but waiting patiently. I hope the 3.0 Hurricane is at some point an option in the Wrangler, but I now have my doubts. I'll probably continue to pass on the 4 cylinder turbo, and keep my 2016 JKR.

OTOH they might offer the 3.0 Hurricane in the Wrangler. They stuffed a Hemi in some of them, so maybe there is some hope.
Do you think the next wrangler will be automatic only? Stellantis had initially said the current model would be but oh boy they got nasty backlash on that. It still has a high take rate with the manual transmission.
 
Do you think the next wrangler will be automatic only? Stellantis had initially said the current model would be but oh boy they got nasty backlash on that. It still has a high take rate with the manual transmission.
My understanding is that the manual transmissions are not as efficient from a fuel economy / emissions perspective (it is easier for the manufacturer to keep the parameters set in a certain way to achieve a better result - I am probably not explaining it well), so there is a lot of pressure to eliminate them.
 
My understanding is that the manual transmissions are not as efficient from a fuel economy / emissions perspective (it is easier for the manufacturer to keep the parameters set in a certain way to achieve a better result - I am probably not explaining it well), so there is a lot of pressure to eliminate them.
The epa kind of rigs the testing procedure to favor automatics unfortunately. Automatic transmissions started to become more fuel efficient than manuals only in the last decade or so. The usa also requires separate testing for every combination sold ie fwd/awd automatic fwd/awd manual transmissions. An epa certification is roughly a million dollars now. So four million dollars if you offer two transmission types and drive types.
 
The epa kind of rigs the testing procedure to favor automatics unfortunately. Automatic transmissions started to become more fuel efficient than manuals only in the last decade or so. The usa also requires separate testing for every combination sold ie fwd/awd automatic fwd/awd manual transmissions. An epa certification is roughly a million dollars now. So four million dollars if you offer two transmission types and drive types.
Right. You explained it better than I did. Stinks because my first car was a manual transmission and I think it made me a much better driver. My younger son is driving and we want to get him a car (something reasonable) and finding a manual transmission in a car that is not a sports car is very difficult.
 
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Do you think the next wrangler will be automatic only? Stellantis had initially said the current model would be but oh boy they got nasty backlash on that. It still has a high take rate with the manual transmission.
Before I went on the car shopping merry-go-round of tragedy, I drove a new 2025 Wrangler Sport 2 dr. with a 6 speed and pentastar; the local Jeep/Ram dealer had big discounts down to near 30K out the door. Terrible shifter and knob, mystery trans into the 3 or 5 gate and the motor didn't like the stick. Seating position is weird with your feet down into a well. But the car was brand new maybe the ecu needed some learning and who knows if I would have been able to accomodate the ergo and design oddities over some time in use.

But I used to drive an 80's CJ-7 Laredo with the proper 258 cu-in AMC sixer and a 4 speed and that thing had Jeep personality. This thing is horrid. Also big dislike on the busy playskool interior. Much rather have a 2dr Suzuki Samurai JX than the '25 Wrongler for doing trail things.

Screenshot 2025-10-10 160504.webp
 
Jeepers! That's an over-tuned grenade. Has anyone learned what we really we need is 1700-4500 rpm big torque. Peak HP = worthless in anything other than a competition engine. I am not liking the pentastar legacy fly-apart valvetrain in some GME.

My (leased) engine sample is way undertuned, and maybe if they didn't crush the marginal diameter exhaust pipe in half(!) to clear rear suspension it would breath easier. Duh! Way to go morons.

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Good to know they're still doing that.... This is what they do to the Ram's y pipe
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Good to know they're still doing that.... This is what they do to the Ram's y pipe
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Those formed pipes, the D pipe on the Ram and what appears to be Jeep Compass, have less of an affect on exhaust back pressure than most people think. The main drivers of back pressure are the catalytic converter substrates and muffler.
 
Those formed pipes, the D pipe on the Ram and what appears to be Jeep Compass, have less of an affect on exhaust back pressure than most people think. The main drivers of back pressure are the catalytic converter substrates and muffler.
Some mufflers- maybe many mufflers. Modern cats should not if unplugged, though close coupled cats are not good for extraction tuning. This compass has a giant muffler with two tail outlets each larger each larger than the one inlet, I think it's the same part that was used on the high(er) spec Hornet. The exhaust pipe is already seemingly undersized even for a for mid boost turbo tuning and just maddening to see it flattened just before it hit the rear muffler inlet. If this car wasn't a lease I would be at the local custom exhaust shop having this corrected.
Then I would likely not notice a whit of difference after dropping 150 bucks. LOL.
 
Some mufflers- maybe many mufflers. Modern cats should not if unplugged, though close coupled cats are not good for extraction tuning. This compass has a giant muffler with two tail outlets each larger each larger than the one inlet, I think it's the same part that was used on the high(er) spec Hornet. The exhaust pipe is already seemingly undersized even for a for mid boost turbo tuning and just maddening to see it flattened just before it hit the rear muffler inlet. If this car wasn't a lease I would be at the local custom exhaust shop having this corrected.
Then I would likely not notice a whit of difference after dropping 150 bucks. LOL.
You absolutely will not noticed a difference except the exhaust might melt or bounce into what it was flatten to clear. Exhaust's don't form pipe like that unless they absolutely have to. At best you might get back a kPa or two of back pressure by removing it and that would only be at Max flow rate and temperature.

Modern cats absolutely are one of the largest contributors for exhaust system back pressure, especially the new high cell density substrates. Say the exhaust system has a back pressure target 60kPa at max flow and temperature, its not atypical for the "hot end" to get allocated over 50% of the target. The "hot end" is from where the exhaust exits the engine to the first joint after the last emission control device. Which on a lot of cars with close coupled cats really isn't very long.
 
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