Penrite Vantage

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: SR5
So I've added some viscosity and CCS data from the Russian Oil Club for the Shell Helix HX7 10W-40 semi-synthetic.

(HX7 VOA Link)


Just to compare the Russian Oil Club (ROC) VOA data to the Shell technical Data Sheet (TDS) (Here) for the HX7 10W40 semi-syn.

KV40 Viscosity (cSt)
ROC = 91.99
TDS = 92.1

KV100 (cSt)
ROC = 14.09
TDS = 14.4

I consider that a good match

 

[Silk]

Repco's monthly retail flyer had 2 pages of oil on special, and GTX 20W-50 of course, so was going to get some for my daughter's Laser...and then noticed the Nulon's. They had 20W-50 high mileage, semi synth, A3/B4 cheaper than GTX ! I went in to get it today (had to order to our branch) and the counter guy said ''Wait until you see what we have Penrite on sale for next week!''

No, no, no, I won't be looking at what they have Penrite on sale for !

 

[SR5]

Wow a semi-synthetic 20W50 that is A3/B4, that is much better than the old SJ GTX 20W50 that is used to buy. Good work Silk.

I've said it before, but Nulon has really picked up their game recently.

 

[SR5]

This is probably the stuff
(Link Nulon semi-syn 20W50)

The semi-synthetic (SN & A3/B4) has a TBN of 11 and SA of 1.1%, while the regular Nulon mineral 20W50 has a TBN of only 5.8, SA of 0.8% and is just rated API SJ.

You definitely got the much better stuff for your daughter.

 

[Silk]

I was wanting it for the Volvo, but got a better deal on the Penrite at the time. It was cheaper than the regular 20W-50 Nulon, so a good deal I think.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Silk
It was cheaper than the regular 20W-50 Nulon, so a good deal I think.


If you're telling me that you got Penrite HPR 15 full synthetic for less than Nulon mineral, then yes you got a very good deal.

 

[Silk]

No, the semi. With all the different oil pack sizes, you need to calculate cost per litre to see if it's a good deal. Can't compare a 4 litre GTX with a 6 litre Penrite. The Nulon semi comes in a 5 litre, the mineral 20W-50 in a 4 litre, which of course is cheaper, but per litre the A3/B4 was cheaper.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Silk
No, the semi. With all the different oil pack sizes, you need to calculate cost per litre to see if it's a good deal. Can't compare a 4 litre GTX with a 6 litre Penrite. The Nulon semi comes in a 5 litre, the mineral 20W-50 in a 4 litre, which of course is cheaper, but per litre the A3/B4 was cheaper.

Got ya.

Still a great deal if the price per litre of the Nulon semi-syn was less than the Nulon mineral. You paid less for a better oil.

 

[B320i]

Haven't followed the discussion around here for quite some time, this thread has been a good read and given me some "ideas" for the next OC in the old Bimmer!

 

[SR5]

Good to see you back B320I

BTW at Repco till 18 March (tomorrow) they have Penrite Vantage Semi-Synthetic in either 10W40 for 20% Off, or 15W40 for 25% Off.

Both semi-synthetic, both API SN/CF & ACEA A3/B4, and both the big 6L container which helps if you have a larger sump size.

Also 20% off Ryco oil and air filters.

 

[Silk]

Yeah, nah...too thin for me.

What can you tell me about their 30 SR5 ? They seem to only list it as a lawn mower oil, not any other application. I'd kinda like to see it aimed a little higher, diesels for example. It looks ok from what little I can find on it, they just don't seem to take it seriously.

 

[B320i]

Originally Posted By: Silk
Yeah, nah...too thin for me.

I was thinking something the same, if the 10w40 is closer to a -30 I might have to give it a miss, poor old girl hasn't got the quietest valve-train and thinner oil won't help things!

Truth be told, I've not had any complaints with the Valvoline EngineArmour 15w40 the past 6500km or so its been in use. The oil has turned dark fairly quickly and seemed to be cleaning up some muck under the valve cover from what I can see through the filler hole (I know, such a scientific statement). And it was bought for $18.99/5L or something stupidly cheap like that.

This discussion has me thinking, though. Perhaps 10w40 is a worth a second look?

 

[SR5]

Hi Silk,
I recently spoke to Penrite about this, their Mono Truck SAE30 is a pure Group II oil.
Quote:
Specification: (Mono Truck 30)
ACEA E1, Allison C-3, API CF, API CF-2, API SG, Caterpillar TO-2, Detroit 7SE-270, Mack EO-K/2, MB 227.0., MB 228.0., MIL-L-2104F


Quote:
TYPICAL DATA (Mono Truck 30)
Density at 15°C, kg/L 0.880
Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt at 40°C 84
Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt at 100°C 10.8
Viscosity Index 114
Zinc, Mass % 0.122
Sulphated Ash, Mass % 1.22
Base Number 9.4


Given this is a pure Group II monograde (not the old manky & waxy Group I stuff) you can expect much better cold flow properties - certainly good enough for you and me even in winter, plus good oxidation stability.

BrocL says it should be very shear stable
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno

TO-2 is combined wet sump tractor use with gearbox. Not the easiest test to pass. Allison C-3 is also for off-road combined sump use. No shearing allowed (well not much), so this is a pretty tough oil

The Penrite Small Engine SAE 30 should be much the same, but it doesn't carry the above OEM specs and it has a much lower TBN.
kV40 = 90 cSt
KV100 = 11 cSt
Zinc = 1170 ppm
TBN = 6.5

Looking at similar SAE 30 oils, you can expect a low Noack volatility of about 6 to 8 %. The Mag1 SAE 30 lists it's Noack at a low 6.1%. Here is a VOA of Rotella T1 SAE 30, just out of interest.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4696111/

I'm very interested in these oils myself, I just need the shops to put them on sale with their regular multigrade PCMOs.

 

[Silk]

Thanks for that. I only see SAE 30 in the lawnmower section, and they tell you nothing on the bottle, although I'm sure it's all good. I'm using local brewer Aegis Oils for my SAE 30, and it seems pretty well the same as the Penrite Mono Truck you have shown. I might have to give Repco a nudge and see if I can get some.

The Airhead has 30 recommended from zero to 30 degrees, right in my zone, and I'm keen to give it a go. Not often I get out below zero, but those frosty mornings usually turn into a beautiful cloudless day...and in the afternoon I kick myself for wimping out.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: B320i
Originally Posted By: Silk
Yeah, nah...too thin for me.

I was thinking something the same, if the 10w40 is closer to a -30 I might have to give it a miss, poor old girl hasn't got the quietest valve-train and thinner oil won't help things!

According to J300 the minimum HTHS for a 0/5/10W40 is 3.5 cP but for 15W40 the minimum HTHS is 3.7 cP, so the 15W40's are definitely thicker, I know GTX 15W40 has a HTHS of 3.95 cP

Now look at the data for Mag1 SAE30 below, it's a modern API SN monograde. Sure we can't get it in Australia or NZ, but they publish a good data sheet for it and it does appear "typical" to me for a modern Group II monograde. It has a HTHS of 3.38 cP.
(Ref: MAG1 SAE30)
Quote:
Mag1 SAE30
SG / Density = 0.877
KV40 = 87.96 cSt
KV100 = 10.94 cSt
VI = 110
Zinc = 850 ppm (0.085 wt%)
SA = 0.92 %
TBN = 7.0 (D2896)
Noack = 6.1 % (D6375)
HTHS = 3.38 cP at 150 C
Boron = 180 ppm
Ca = 1900 ppm (0.19 wt%)
Moly = 40 ppm
FP = 210 C (D92)
PP = -33 C
Sulphur = 0.3 wt%


Now Penrite do make a Mono Truck SAE40. That should be thick enough for you two.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Silk
Thanks for that. I only see SAE 30 in the lawnmower section, and they tell you nothing on the bottle, although I'm sure it's all good. I'm using local brewer Aegis Oils for my SAE 30, and it seems pretty well the same as the Penrite Mono Truck you have shown. I might have to give Repco a nudge and see if I can get some.

I would just contact Aegis and ask if it's a Group I or Group II. But I assume it's a Group II as hardly anybody uses Group I anymore.

A Group II monograde with enough TBN and ZDDP for your needs, it's hard to go wrong. No polymer VII to shear, and very low volatility.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: B320i
I've not had any complaints with the Valvoline EngineArmour 15w40 the past 6500km or so its been in use. The oil has turned dark fairly quickly and seemed to be cleaning up some muck under the valve cover from what I can see through the filler hole (I know, such a scientific statement). And it was bought for $18.99/5L or something stupidly cheap like that.


Valvoline make good stuff, and they have recently improved the EngineArmour formula, it now contains more synthetic than before (I spoke to Valvoline over the phone recently). I have also found the new Oz spec sheet (2017) and it shows more TBN than the old (2013) spec sheet which only had a TBN of ~8 and was rated the dodgey A3/B3/B4 rubbish. Their new stuff is much better and now equivalent to DuraBlend in quality (again from valvoline over the phone).

Lets compare....

Penrite Vantage 15W40 semi-synthetic (PV) and Valvoline EngineArmour 15W40 semi-synthetic (EA).

Specs
PV = API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4, VW 502/505, MB 229.1, RN 0770/0710
EA = API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4, VW 502/505, MB 229.1

KV40 (cSt)
PV = 109
EA = 111.0

KV100 (cSt)
PV = 14.8
EA = 15.1

Cold Cranking at -20C (cP)
PV = 4929
EA = 5800

VI
PV = 148
EA = 141

Zinc
PV = 1090 ppm
EA = ??

TBN
PV = 10.1
EA = 10.2

Nock Volatility (%)
PV = ??
EA = 10.5

PP (C)
PV = ??
EA = -33

FP (C)
PV = ??
EA = 230

Density
PV = 0.873
EA = 0.869

Sulphated Ash (%)
PV = 1.29
EA = ??

They both look very good and close to me. It would be nice to know the Noack of the Penrite and the Zinc of the Valvoline.

To be honest, for this one I would probably go the new Valvoline Engine Armour.

 

[B320i]

Originally Posted By: "SR5"
I have also found the new Oz spec sheet (2017) and it shows more TBN than the old (2013) spec sheet which only had a TBN of ~8 and was rated the dodgey A3/B3/B4 rubbish.

That's an interesting assertion, and one I think that's been mentioned briefly before here on BITOG. Is the A3/B4 specification a self-claimed one, or is there a testing process for an oil to carry that specification?
Of interest is the Valvoline EA bottle I have spare (purchased ~1yr ago) doesn't make mention of A3/B4 specification, which is somewhat interesting.

Just looking at the Easter Oil Sales thread I started, Magnatec 10w40 (Datasheet here) appears to be going for $19/5L at AutoBarn, and being A3/B4 should be just the ticket for the old BMW. Shame there's no HTHS information. Of course it doesn't matter, but the differences between this, Helix HX7 10w40 and Penrite's Vantage product would be interesting to note. I suppose its worth referencing our previous discussion on Shell Helix.

 

[Silk]

20w-50, and anything else outside official grades, used to just have an API rating, and not much info. It's good to see Penrite and Nulon giving these oils an ACEA and manufacturers approvals, even if how they get them is a bit dubious.

 

[SR5]

My understanding is that ACEA specs are self-certified. I think Penrite have always done a good job and I trust them, but in the old days Valvoline Australia would claim things like A3/B4 and C3 which is just not possible under the modern sequences as they are mutually exclusive when it's comes to stuff like SAPS levels.

However Valvoline have recently pull their socks up and I am less concerned now.

Speaking to Valvoline over the phone a few years ago, they told me DuraBlend (DB) was a better product than EngineArmour (EA) as the DB contained more synthetic and you could push out the OCI for longer. They said DB was a 12 month oil while EA was a 6 month oil. On the bottles (from memory) DB was rated A3/B4 (TBN > 10) while EA was rated A3/B3 (TBN > 8), in general. But Valvoline did some silly labels back them. Their old EA 15W40 spec sheet clearly says TBN of ~ 8.

I recently rang Valvoline and they said they have just upgraded EA to be the same quality as DB. The new EA has increased synthetic content. The bottles are now labeled A3/B4 (TBN > 10) and the new 2017 spec sheet show a correct TBN of ~ 10. So it all seems to line up.

They said DB is now only being sold to garages and workshops for their professional line, while the EA is for the DIY people. But now it's the exact same stuff...guy on the phone stressed that. If you look around big stores, some sell a product called Valvoline DuraMax, I was told this is just DuraBlend done as a special package.

The new EA (A3/B4) is very good, the older EA (A3/B3) more of a basic product. That's my take on multiple Valvoline conversations, and studying their spec sheets a bit too much.

The new EA bottle looks a bit different too, just google EA images and compare to your bottle. Easy to tell apart. Nothing wrong with the old stuff though, I just prefer the new stuff.

I would order them like this for 15W40 semi-synthetic
1. New EA
2. Penrite Vantage
3. Old EA

For 10W40 semi-synthetic I would go the Penrite Vantage first.

Just my 2 cents.