Did I read somewhere on here that Pennzoil Ultra uses a GTL base stock, instead of HC crude? Who else is using GTL base stocks?
Pennzoil's cleaning claims - Updated!
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It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Pennzoil Ultra showed a notable advantage over M1EP in Sequence IIIG. I kind of suspect it would.
Not that it really matters, as Mobil 1 has always kept engines extremely clean, comparatively speaking. Everything is relative.
Not that it really matters, as Mobil 1 has always kept engines extremely clean, comparatively speaking. Everything is relative.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Which organization performed these tests?
I'm interested to know, SOPUS mentions the types of tests performed but does NOT mention which group performed these tests.
It's a standardized test, I don't think it really matters
It does to me. There CAN be a LOT of variables even in standardized tests.
What's interesting is that many companies will reveal the organization that actually performed the tests. Yet is it obvious that SOPUS chose not to list them.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Which organization performed these tests?
I'm interested to know, SOPUS mentions the types of tests performed but does NOT mention which group performed these tests.
It's a standardized test, I don't think it really matters
It does to me. There CAN be a LOT of variables even in standardized tests.
What's interesting is that many companies will reveal the organization that actually performed the tests. Yet is it obvious that SOPUS chose not to list them.
Before I get shot at, I just thought I throw out my idea on this whole idea of "cleaning" engines...Most engines don't have a problem with not being clean if oil changes have been performed at normal intervals with a quality oil to begin with?
Also (correct me if I'm wrong) cleaning agents or detergents that are added to oil take away from the actual lubrication ability of the motor oil to begin with? Detergents are good up until a certain point? They clean, which usually has some sort of "Scrubbing" of something. Detergents depend on a certain amount of friction in order to clean something?
Also (correct me if I'm wrong) cleaning agents or detergents that are added to oil take away from the actual lubrication ability of the motor oil to begin with? Detergents are good up until a certain point? They clean, which usually has some sort of "Scrubbing" of something. Detergents depend on a certain amount of friction in order to clean something?
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Which organization performed these tests?
I'm interested to know, SOPUS mentions the types of tests performed but does NOT mention which group performed these tests.
It's a standardized test, I don't think it really matters
It does to me. There CAN be a LOT of variables even in standardized tests.
What's interesting is that many companies will reveal the organization that actually performed the tests. Yet is it obvious that SOPUS chose not to list them.
They probably used their own lab(s), I'm sure they have several, just like XOM does.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Which organization performed these tests?
I'm interested to know, SOPUS mentions the types of tests performed but does NOT mention which group performed these tests.
It's a standardized test, I don't think it really matters
It does to me. There CAN be a LOT of variables even in standardized tests.
What's interesting is that many companies will reveal the organization that actually performed the tests. Yet is it obvious that SOPUS chose not to list them.
They probably used their own lab(s), I'm sure they have several, just like XOM does.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: hisilver
Are all the oils tested HTO-06 specd?
It's an oil deposit test not a deposit cleanming test.
Here is M1s claim to engine cleaning with M1 5-30.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Mobil_1_Sludge_Protection.aspx
These claims have nothing to do with Honda HTO-06 specification.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: hisilver
Are all the oils tested HTO-06 specd?
It's an oil deposit test not a deposit cleanming test.
Here is M1s claim to engine cleaning with M1 5-30.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Mobil_1_Sludge_Protection.aspx
These claims have nothing to do with Honda HTO-06 specification.
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Before I get shot at, I just thought I throw out my idea on this whole idea of "cleaning" engines...Most engines don't have a problem with not being clean if oil changes have been performed at normal intervals with a quality oil to begin with?
You're right, most engines that are regurarly maintained don't need cleaning.
Here is my Focus with 85k miles and nothing but MC 5w20 by the previous owner. What's exactly there to clean?
Here is my Mazda with about 105k miles. First 60k was with some dino, and various synthetics, the rest were done with dino. Both look exactly the same cleanliness wise.
Before I get shot at, I just thought I throw out my idea on this whole idea of "cleaning" engines...Most engines don't have a problem with not being clean if oil changes have been performed at normal intervals with a quality oil to begin with?
You're right, most engines that are regurarly maintained don't need cleaning.
Here is my Focus with 85k miles and nothing but MC 5w20 by the previous owner. What's exactly there to clean?
Here is my Mazda with about 105k miles. First 60k was with some dino, and various synthetics, the rest were done with dino. Both look exactly the same cleanliness wise.
I think some of you are missing the point.
The Seq IIIG is a very tough test that is hard on motor oil. Your car will most likely never see the type of conditions this test simulates.
What Pennzoil did was show how their oils perform in the Seq IIIG testing conditions vs competitor oils.
The results show the PU/PP do very well at preventing high temperature deposits and varnish.
Trying to differentiate an 8% gain over Mobil 1 would be tough. Mobil 1 EP would be more on par with PU. So would the AFE line most likely.
The Seq IIIG is a very tough test that is hard on motor oil. Your car will most likely never see the type of conditions this test simulates.
What Pennzoil did was show how their oils perform in the Seq IIIG testing conditions vs competitor oils.
The results show the PU/PP do very well at preventing high temperature deposits and varnish.
Trying to differentiate an 8% gain over Mobil 1 would be tough. Mobil 1 EP would be more on par with PU. So would the AFE line most likely.
I've seen these claims on this board before, and not just in regards to Mobil.
A couple of points:
Each oil is a compromise. Some have slightly better protection, MPG, cleaning ability, long drain ability, etc.
During the Q&A with Sopus on their release of Ultra, it was quite perplexing to several of us that they wouldn't (and possibly couldn't) guarantee Ultra's cleaning ability beyond 4,000 miles.
It frankly is disingenuous that Mobil EP (which many would consider Ultra's competitor) was left out of the equation.
A couple of points:
Each oil is a compromise. Some have slightly better protection, MPG, cleaning ability, long drain ability, etc.
During the Q&A with Sopus on their release of Ultra, it was quite perplexing to several of us that they wouldn't (and possibly couldn't) guarantee Ultra's cleaning ability beyond 4,000 miles.
It frankly is disingenuous that Mobil EP (which many would consider Ultra's competitor) was left out of the equation.
Originally Posted By: buster
The results show the PU/PP do very well at preventing high temperature deposits and varnish.
How can you relate deposit prevention with deposit cleaning? Regular gasoline is an excellent deposit cleaner, would it pass deposit prevention test?
Hence my comment about HTO-06 spec, some marketing genius put these two together and viola, we get this marketing baloney.
The results show the PU/PP do very well at preventing high temperature deposits and varnish.
How can you relate deposit prevention with deposit cleaning? Regular gasoline is an excellent deposit cleaner, would it pass deposit prevention test?
Hence my comment about HTO-06 spec, some marketing genius put these two together and viola, we get this marketing baloney.
I would think deposit cleaning is a much tough and complicated job then keeping deposit formed. where is Maxlife?
Originally Posted By: Capa
I've seen these claims on this board before, and not just in regards to Mobil.
A couple of points:
Each oil is a compromise. Some have slightly better protection, MPG, cleaning ability, long drain ability, etc.
During the Q&A with Sopus on their release of Ultra, it was quite perplexing to several of us that they wouldn't (and possibly couldn't) guarantee Ultra's cleaning ability beyond 4,000 miles.
It frankly is disingenuous that Mobil EP (which many would consider Ultra's competitor) was left out of the equation.
I agree.
I've seen these claims on this board before, and not just in regards to Mobil.
A couple of points:
Each oil is a compromise. Some have slightly better protection, MPG, cleaning ability, long drain ability, etc.
During the Q&A with Sopus on their release of Ultra, it was quite perplexing to several of us that they wouldn't (and possibly couldn't) guarantee Ultra's cleaning ability beyond 4,000 miles.
It frankly is disingenuous that Mobil EP (which many would consider Ultra's competitor) was left out of the equation.
I agree.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: buster
The results show the PU/PP do very well at preventing high temperature deposits and varnish.
How can you relate deposit prevention with deposit cleaning? Regular gasoline is an excellent deposit cleaner, would it pass deposit prevention test?
Hence my comment about HTO-06 spec, some marketing genius put these two together and viola, we get this marketing baloney.
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/gastests/iiigtest/
300F for 100 hrs, interrupted every 20 hours for oil level check.
Quote:
Sequence IIIG Test Equipment and Procedure
The Sequence IIIG test uses a 1996/1997 231 CID (3,800 cc) Series II General Motors V-6 fuel-injected gasoline engine.
Using unleaded gasoline, the engine runs a 10-minute initial oil-leveling procedure followed by a 15-minute slow ramp up to speed and load conditions. The engine then operates at 125 bhp, 3,600 rpm, and 150 °C oil temperature for 100 hours, interrupted at 20-hour intervals for oil level checks.
Sequence IIIG Test Results
At test end:
All six pistons are inspected for deposits and varnish.
Cam lobes and lifters are measured for wear.
Kinematic viscosity increase (percent increase) at 40°C is compared to a new oil baseline every 20 hours.
Wear metals Cu, Pb, and Fe, are evaluated.
Originally Posted By: buster
The results show the PU/PP do very well at preventing high temperature deposits and varnish.
How can you relate deposit prevention with deposit cleaning? Regular gasoline is an excellent deposit cleaner, would it pass deposit prevention test?
Hence my comment about HTO-06 spec, some marketing genius put these two together and viola, we get this marketing baloney.
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/gastests/iiigtest/
300F for 100 hrs, interrupted every 20 hours for oil level check.
Quote:
Sequence IIIG Test Equipment and Procedure
The Sequence IIIG test uses a 1996/1997 231 CID (3,800 cc) Series II General Motors V-6 fuel-injected gasoline engine.
Using unleaded gasoline, the engine runs a 10-minute initial oil-leveling procedure followed by a 15-minute slow ramp up to speed and load conditions. The engine then operates at 125 bhp, 3,600 rpm, and 150 °C oil temperature for 100 hours, interrupted at 20-hour intervals for oil level checks.
Sequence IIIG Test Results
At test end:
All six pistons are inspected for deposits and varnish.
Cam lobes and lifters are measured for wear.
Kinematic viscosity increase (percent increase) at 40°C is compared to a new oil baseline every 20 hours.
Wear metals Cu, Pb, and Fe, are evaluated.
Mobil's performance from their website:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/What_Is_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/What_Is_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.aspx
Ok Ok is it that Mobil is the best oil for these cars ORRR offers the best not oil so much but $$$$$$$$$ deal??? If you were the ceo of a car company which would you take?? $$$ or best oil.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Here is a list of factory fill engines with M1 oils. Up to 35.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/factory_fill/Mobil_1_Factory_fill_home.aspx
Originally Posted By: tig1
Here is a list of factory fill engines with M1 oils. Up to 35.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/factory_fill/Mobil_1_Factory_fill_home.aspx
SOPUS offers a 'warranty rebate'. I've been using that for 2+ years now, I believe. Almost free synthetic/blend/HM beats M1 every day, month, or year, for me.
That's as relevant as any 'test' their marketing dept tries to push (IMO).
That's as relevant as any 'test' their marketing dept tries to push (IMO).
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil's performance from their website:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/What_Is_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.aspx
That graph is a joke. As far as being factory fill I think that's a money thing and most oil companies formulate an oil presently that would be fine in most of those engines.
Honestly I believe most of these claims are just noise. . Change your oil at a decent interval and enjoy a long reliable engine life.
Some engines need something special,most don't,so does the added cost translate to longer engine life,likely not but live and let live.
And just to put it out there,most every really high mileage engine I've seen personally used a conventional oil to get to that point,so it doesn't take a high tech syn to get an engine into high miles.
Mobil's performance from their website:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/What_Is_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.aspx
That graph is a joke. As far as being factory fill I think that's a money thing and most oil companies formulate an oil presently that would be fine in most of those engines.
Honestly I believe most of these claims are just noise. . Change your oil at a decent interval and enjoy a long reliable engine life.
Some engines need something special,most don't,so does the added cost translate to longer engine life,likely not but live and let live.
And just to put it out there,most every really high mileage engine I've seen personally used a conventional oil to get to that point,so it doesn't take a high tech syn to get an engine into high miles.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
SOPUS offers a 'warranty rebate'. I've been using that for 2+ years now, I believe. Almost free synthetic/blend/HM beats M1 every day, month, or year, for me.
The warranty rebate is only good on late model cars and you can only use it once per car. So how have you been using it for 2+ years? Providing fake VINs?
SOPUS offers a 'warranty rebate'. I've been using that for 2+ years now, I believe. Almost free synthetic/blend/HM beats M1 every day, month, or year, for me.
The warranty rebate is only good on late model cars and you can only use it once per car. So how have you been using it for 2+ years? Providing fake VINs?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Providing fake VINs?
No. They're real VINs.
Our family has acquired a couple new(er) cars in that time also.
Providing fake VINs?
No. They're real VINs.
Our family has acquired a couple new(er) cars in that time also.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
...
Honestly I believe most of these claims are just noise. . ...
I agree it is pretty much all marketing.
I do like Mobil1, I've used it for many years and will continue to use it until I have an oil related failure. (I'd say the chance of that happening is about the same as me winning the power ball, which is to say near 0)
I do like the test Mobil does and post like the million mile Mercedes and the Taxi's as well as the older one involving the E30 325i. I know they (the test) aren't respected here but to me that stuff is more meaningful than graphs without scales and "25% cleaner pistons".
What I've learned here in relation to oils and filters is that I just don't think it matters that much.
As much as the marketing is noise, so too is all the nail biting around here about which oil cleans the best, which filters have paper end caps or dome end bypasses and what oil has a few extra PPM of whatever element on a UOA. I mean we have got two not too bad UOAs on blown up motors in the UOA section...
I consider all the UOAs and filter cutting I do entertainment value and if I "waste" some oil or money in the process that doesn't matter to me either.
...
Honestly I believe most of these claims are just noise. . ...
I agree it is pretty much all marketing.
I do like Mobil1, I've used it for many years and will continue to use it until I have an oil related failure. (I'd say the chance of that happening is about the same as me winning the power ball, which is to say near 0)
I do like the test Mobil does and post like the million mile Mercedes and the Taxi's as well as the older one involving the E30 325i. I know they (the test) aren't respected here but to me that stuff is more meaningful than graphs without scales and "25% cleaner pistons".
What I've learned here in relation to oils and filters is that I just don't think it matters that much.
As much as the marketing is noise, so too is all the nail biting around here about which oil cleans the best, which filters have paper end caps or dome end bypasses and what oil has a few extra PPM of whatever element on a UOA. I mean we have got two not too bad UOAs on blown up motors in the UOA section...
I consider all the UOAs and filter cutting I do entertainment value and if I "waste" some oil or money in the process that doesn't matter to me either.
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