Haupuna Beach: Let me finish answering your question. IMO the Performax 100 is a better product than the current SJ rated Pennzoil synthetic and the SJ rated Mobil 1 TriSyn. I also believe it was a better product than the rest of the SJ rated PAO synthetic oils that were on the market at that time.
pennzoil question for johnny
- Thread starter tweeker43
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Quote:
"Marketing wins again."
Yeah,thats a shame. But you know,they just might reintroduce it fingers crossed
If it protected a Fuel Motor,it will protect anything.
The new Pennzoil Synthetic in the works sounds exciting,,I hope they get in high gear and get it on the shelves soon
"Marketing wins again."
Yeah,thats a shame. But you know,they just might reintroduce it fingers crossed
If it protected a Fuel Motor,it will protect anything. The new Pennzoil Synthetic in the works sounds exciting,,I hope they get in high gear and get it on the shelves soon
Johnny,
I'm looking for a good Group III oil. current choice is Valvoline, mainly due to the NOAK volatility of 8 in 10w30. Concern is long term sludge in my Camry. Wear issues are also important but have no reason to think Valvoline is better or worse than others. (With the exception of Schaeffer's) Can you tell me why Pennzoil synthetic is better? may make a switch if the evidence makes Pennzoil look better.
Thanks
I'm looking for a good Group III oil. current choice is Valvoline, mainly due to the NOAK volatility of 8 in 10w30. Concern is long term sludge in my Camry. Wear issues are also important but have no reason to think Valvoline is better or worse than others. (With the exception of Schaeffer's) Can you tell me why Pennzoil synthetic is better? may make a switch if the evidence makes Pennzoil look better.
Thanks
Johnny---Wow!! Didn't know Pennzoil had such a low NOAK.
Is that info on the website, couldn't find it. Thanks!!
Bob---Maybe I'm focusing too much on volatility. IMHO, Schaeffer's is top notch with wear protection for most vehicles on the road. Maybe I should take the plunge and put in an order.
Patman----I do think additives are important but I'd like to start with a base oil that is better than group I or II. Have you read the info on Group III? If you can get over the fact Group IIIs are overpriced they are still MUCH better than I or II. Most contaminants are removed and many short length molecules are "hydrocracked" into more stable molecules. While I don't agree with them being called "synthetic" there is a reason why the court allowed that designation. They are almost as good as Group IV oils. Why am I interested in Group III and not Group IV? I don't like the volatility numbers from Mobil 1 and don't want to pay the price for Redline. Mobil 1 is also tight lipped on their new additive package. Are they using more pour point depressors to compensate for thick esters for wear protection? I need more info on Mobil 1. Won't touch Amsoil due to cost and no API cert on their PAO product.
I am no expert on oil and appreciate everyone's info
[ July 20, 2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]
Bob---Maybe I'm focusing too much on volatility. IMHO, Schaeffer's is top notch with wear protection for most vehicles on the road. Maybe I should take the plunge and put in an order.
Patman----I do think additives are important but I'd like to start with a base oil that is better than group I or II. Have you read the info on Group III? If you can get over the fact Group IIIs are overpriced they are still MUCH better than I or II. Most contaminants are removed and many short length molecules are "hydrocracked" into more stable molecules. While I don't agree with them being called "synthetic" there is a reason why the court allowed that designation. They are almost as good as Group IV oils. Why am I interested in Group III and not Group IV? I don't like the volatility numbers from Mobil 1 and don't want to pay the price for Redline. Mobil 1 is also tight lipped on their new additive package. Are they using more pour point depressors to compensate for thick esters for wear protection? I need more info on Mobil 1. Won't touch Amsoil due to cost and no API cert on their PAO product.
I am no expert on oil and appreciate everyone's info
[ July 20, 2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]
Yes it is. Pennzoil Homepage Select products and in the lower right hand corner a window box has the pdf speck sheets listed for the product you want to look at.
Johnny,
When I pull it up it says SJ GF-2
Dated 2000
When I pull it up it says SJ GF-2
Dated 2000
Patman
Staff member
I just love getting this guy's goat though, he always tries to spread false info (such as telling other people on LS1.com that Mobil 1 uses the same type of base oil as Syntec) and he's always trying to tell everyone that I haven't a clue what I'm talking about. He's basically a bonehead, so telling him he's overpaying for his oil makes me feel good.quote:
Originally posted by Johnny:
Patman: I can tell that you are not in marketing, so you can tell someone whatever you want about their Castrol Syntec or any other product. But if he or she is using Castrol Syntec and thinks it's great, don't tell them it's not better that GTX. You can tell them you know of a better synthetic or explain the difference between Group III and PAO, but never compare it to a lesser product (in their mind). I'm just saying this as a marketer of oil products. This would be a bad sales move if I or any other oil salesman made this move. Hey, but keep on preaching it brother, I love reading your post.
MolaKule
Staff member
Patman,
Noria (the inferior board, compared to this one)
has some boneheads as well. Some guy over there was really spreading false info on oil chemistries.
Noria (the inferior board, compared to this one)
has some boneheads as well. Some guy over there was really spreading false info on oil chemistries.
Just e-mailed Pennzoil asking for an updated tech sheet on their Synthetic oil. If I can get the current specs I will be buying some very soon.
I will post their reply.
Thanks Johnny
Thanks Johnny
TYPICAL PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
PENNZOIL ® SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL WITH PENNZANE ®
TEST METHOD TYPICAL RESULTS
Viscosity Grade. 5w30 10w30 5W-50
API Service SL SL SL
ILSAC GF-3 GF-3
Gravity, °API ASTM D-287 34.4 34 33.9
Specific Gravity @ 60°F(15.6°C) ASTM D-287 0.85 0.86 .86
Viscosity
@ 40°C, cSt ASTM D-445 58.4 61.6 108
@ 100°C, cSt ASTM D-445 10.70 10.50 18.7
Pour Point, °C(°F) ASTM D-97 -48 -45 -50
Viscosity Index ASTM D-2270 176 158 194
Low Temperature Viscosity ASTM D-2602
cP at Temperature (°C), Max High Temperature/High Shear Vis, cP ASTM D-4683 3.07 3.20 4.29
NOACK Volatility, % off Material Number
Bulk 56508 56507 56921
That certainly did not copy and paste as it was sent to me!
[ July 20, 2002, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
PENNZOIL ® SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL WITH PENNZANE ®
TEST METHOD TYPICAL RESULTS
Viscosity Grade. 5w30 10w30 5W-50
API Service SL SL SL
ILSAC GF-3 GF-3
Gravity, °API ASTM D-287 34.4 34 33.9
Specific Gravity @ 60°F(15.6°C) ASTM D-287 0.85 0.86 .86
Viscosity
@ 40°C, cSt ASTM D-445 58.4 61.6 108
@ 100°C, cSt ASTM D-445 10.70 10.50 18.7
Pour Point, °C(°F) ASTM D-97 -48 -45 -50
Viscosity Index ASTM D-2270 176 158 194
Low Temperature Viscosity ASTM D-2602
cP at Temperature (°C), Max High Temperature/High Shear Vis, cP ASTM D-4683 3.07 3.20 4.29
NOACK Volatility, % off Material Number
Bulk 56508 56507 56921
That certainly did not copy and paste as it was sent to me!
[ July 20, 2002, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
Much different than the old specs. VI still much better than the Valvoline but the actual NOACK is not revealed.
Schaeffer Blend 10w30
Cold Cranking Viscosity (ASTM D-5293)
@-25°C, cP 4,500
Mini Rotary Viscosity TP1, cP @-30°C (ASTM D-4684) 13,400
MRV Borderline Pumping Temperature °F/°C (ASTM D-3829)
-28°to-30.22°/-33.30°to –34.44°
Stable Pour Point °F/°C (FTM 7916 Method 203)
Question--How do I compare low temp pumpability when Pennzoil and Schaeffer use different standard tests?
[ July 20, 2002, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]
Schaeffer Blend 10w30
Cold Cranking Viscosity (ASTM D-5293)
@-25°C, cP 4,500
Mini Rotary Viscosity TP1, cP @-30°C (ASTM D-4684) 13,400
MRV Borderline Pumping Temperature °F/°C (ASTM D-3829)
-28°to-30.22°/-33.30°to –34.44°
Stable Pour Point °F/°C (FTM 7916 Method 203)
Question--How do I compare low temp pumpability when Pennzoil and Schaeffer use different standard tests?
[ July 20, 2002, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]
The pumpability question is a good one for Bob, Terry, or Molakule. I do not know the answer.
The NOACK
[ July 20, 2002, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Johnny ]
The NOACK
[ July 20, 2002, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Johnny ]
Johnny
It seems there is a bunch of Performax 100 here in Oz. i'll try and grab some for testing. Not to expensive either. Should know in an hour whats around.
It seems there is a bunch of Performax 100 here in Oz. i'll try and grab some for testing. Not to expensive either. Should know in an hour whats around.
Patman
Staff member
Can I ask you honestly why you are specifically looking for a group 3 oil? Why spend more money for an inferior product? There are a lot of oils out there for lower cost or about the same cost which will provide much better results. I personally don't think any of the group 3 based oils are a good value for the money at all. Their results don't stand out above group 2+ based oils that are way way cheaper. And as much as Mobil 1 is getting a bad rap, I'd pick it over
any group 3 oil in a heartbeat.
jjbula: Well since you want a comparison of the Pennzoil Group III and the Valvoline Group III, lets just look at the numbers.
Pennzoil / Valvoline
Viscosity Index 150 / 149
Pour Point -52 / -42
Vis @100c 10.15 / 10.3
NOAK Volatility, % off 4.4 / 8.0
The decision is yours. I would choose the Pennzoil.
Pennzoil / Valvoline
Viscosity Index 150 / 149
Pour Point -52 / -42
Vis @100c 10.15 / 10.3
NOAK Volatility, % off 4.4 / 8.0
The decision is yours. I would choose the Pennzoil.
Patman: I would agree with you about PAO vs Group III, but I will not agree with you about Group III vs Group II or II+. The Group III's are a better product. Are they worth as much in price vs the PAO'S, absolutely not, but they are worth more the the Group II & II+. IMO the pricing for the Group III synthetics should be about $.50 per quart less than a PAO synthetic.
Patman
Staff member
The group 3s might be better, but not enough so to warrant the huge price jump. And I don't see the group 3 oil specs being all that much better than some of the conventional SL oils with the group 2+.
And even though Schaeffers has to be mail ordered, I can't see why anyone would choose a group 3 oil over their blends when their blends are less money and much better.
And even though Schaeffers has to be mail ordered, I can't see why anyone would choose a group 3 oil over their blends when their blends are less money and much better.
Here is some pricing for petroleum base oils, per gallon;
Why should Group IIIs only be $.50 cheaper per quart than PAO based oils? Seems like they should be at least $1 less.
From what I understand, PAOs are twice as much as Group IIIs.
Why should Group IIIs only be $.50 cheaper per quart than PAO based oils? Seems like they should be at least $1 less.
I personally think the choice of group base oils is a mute point when you factor in what and how additives are blended in the mix.
Case in point, look at these oil analysis, some full, some blend, and some dino. Are you seeing the difference in these because of the base oils or the complete blending of additives and base oil? Wayyyyy tooo much is stressed on base oil alone in determining a good oil and not enough balance is applied when doing looking at these base oils. As a chemist, this would be essential for a starting point but as an end user not the case.
This is one of the biggest reasons I don't like to just look at Td sheets and conclude from that how it will do as there is many that have posted and seen the way things come out in comparision to what they should have been in relation to base oil quality.
Case in point, look at these oil analysis, some full, some blend, and some dino. Are you seeing the difference in these because of the base oils or the complete blending of additives and base oil? Wayyyyy tooo much is stressed on base oil alone in determining a good oil and not enough balance is applied when doing looking at these base oils. As a chemist, this would be essential for a starting point but as an end user not the case.
This is one of the biggest reasons I don't like to just look at Td sheets and conclude from that how it will do as there is many that have posted and seen the way things come out in comparision to what they should have been in relation to base oil quality.
Performax 100 in 5 litre jug but only in 5W50. Saw new version with grey label also 5W50 only.
Johnny, cant find data shet for Performax anywhere? You got an URL for me?
s
Johnny, cant find data shet for Performax anywhere? You got an URL for me?
s
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