Pennzoil Lineup Showdown on Project Farm

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OVERKILL

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Hey its ok to feel and believe what you like, personal emotions and belief aside, the project farm video is decent and does in fact have value.
You are going to find there is a pretty significant sized group that isn't going to agree with you on that last bit, it isn't just myself and @kschachn. The reasons are myriad, but you have to be open to having the discussion first and that's not the vibe I'm getting from this exchange so far.

I'm not a person who is governed by feelings. I'm very much data-driven, which, if you check out some of my content, will become fairly obvious. That rubs some people the wrong way.
 
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Hey its ok to feel and believe what you like, personal emotions and belief aside, the project farm video is decent and does in fact have value.
pert plus shampoo outperforms many oils in one armed bandit tests.. not something I'd put in an engine.

It has no value towards picking any sort of "winner" for real world in engine use.
it does have entertainment value.

motor oil is designed as a product for use in engines.. which doesn't even remotely match the PF testing.
Therefore it has no value.. for anything besides pure entertainment purposes.. and yes I watched it. :unsure:


Now his videos on wrenches and pliers were pretty actually informative.. the rustproofing helped weed out the products that were pure trash. etc.

FWIW I run mostly PP.
 
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You are going to find there is a pretty significant sized group that isn't going to agree with you on that last bit, it isn't just myself and @kschachn. The reasons are myriad, but you have to be open to having the discussion first and that's not the vibe I'm getting from this exchange so far.

I'm not a person who is governed by feelings. I'm very much data-driven, which, if you check out some of my content, will become fairly obvious. That rubs some people the wrong way.
If you or anyone else dislikes a video that's fine, however constantly referring to paid for experiments by Mobil isn't something to be an end all, be all .. its your preference.. If people enjoy marketing videos by oil manufacturers thats great.

However in the posted video there is some good data with included blackstone analysis, I'm not looking for conflict.
 
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Which is a repeatable test with similar results?

Bill, I'm going to stop you right here. You and I have had many run-ins in the last few months. Is this really how you want to present my criticism of the testing methodology employed by somebody with absolutely no affiliation with Pennzoil? That Pennzoil is "bad"? Stop and think for a minute and then perhaps revisit.

To answer your question though, no, I don't think Pennzoil is bad at all. I think this video doesn't provide anything of value with regards to how Pennzoil ranks and prices their own products and I do believe that they spend more on Platinum than they do on the products that fall below it on their ranking. That this can't be determined by some backyard rigged up contraptions shouldn't surprise anyone, these tests are performed for entertainment only, the issue is that despite that disclaimer, people are steadfast in their ascription of value that isn't there to them.
I always listen to what you have to say. I will discuss what I disagree with you occasionally and why with something to back up my view. I do not have any emotions involved.
 

OVERKILL

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If you or anyone else dislikes a video that's fine, however constantly referring to paid for experiments by Mobil isn't something be an end all be all its your preference.. If people enjoy marketing videos by oil manufacturers that great.
I only linked my comments on the Mobil video because they were germane. I never once implied it was any manner of "be all or end all", I simply remarked on it being illustrative of performance targets set internally for their own products by oil manufacturers that went above and beyond the basic API limits as an attempt to underscore that despite us observing the same approvals on the bottle, that a product set to a higher price point will likely also have a corresponding performance point internally to justify that.

Data that contradicts that via various amateur theatrics should be immediate suspect, even if one has been lulled into believing there is more than simply entertainment value in what has been presented.
However in the posted video there is some good data with included blackstone analysis, I'm not looking for conflict.
We've had multiple issues with Blackstone UOA's recently, but even ignoring that, spectrographic analysis only shows you metallic components, which has very little value in terms of insight into composition. There has been a significant push for organic FM and AW chemistry in recent years, and of course it also doesn't tell you about base oil composition at all, nor VII selection. TBN depletion is also not linear and an oil with a lower starting TBN can have better retention than one with a higher TBN, depending on how the rest of the product is formulated.

Basically, there is a HUGE amount of data that you won't get about an oil's formulation from a VOA/UOA. Their purpose is not to decipher an oil's recipe but rather monitor how the fluid is holding up in service and give insight into how the equipment is doing. They are also useful for detecting contamination like fuel dilution (though not as much with Blackstone, since they don't use GC), air intake tract leaks and coolant ingress.
 

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I always listen to what you have to say. I will discuss what I disagree with you occasionally and why with something to back up my view. I do not have any emotions involved.
All I'm asking is to consider what I've said so far a bit more before authoring something like the post I replied to. We've had numerous exchanges, I would expect you should have a pretty solid understanding of my positions on these subjects by now, so inferring that I had somehow implied that Pennzoil was bad should have prompted a re-think or re-evaluation; it should have been a red flag for you to go back and read again instead of asking me. Make sense?
 
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All I'm asking is to consider what I've said so far a bit more before authoring something like the post I replied to. We've had numerous exchanges, I would expect you should have a pretty solid understanding of my positions on these subjects by now, so inferring that I had somehow implied that Pennzoil was bad should have prompted a re-think or re-evaluation; it should have been a red flag for you to go back and read again instead of asking me. Make sense?
Understand that I am in the learning mode. I have no emotions invested. Personally… I do see Project Farm doing a service. The VOA on SP PP and PUP posted was something I was looking for. Are they ASTM tests, absolutely not.
Just wondering why you are so invested in countering this thread. You apparently want to spend time on this…
 
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OVERKILL

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Understand that I am in the learning mode. I have no emotions invested. Personally… I do see Project Farm doing a service. The VOA on SP PP and PUP posted was something I was looking for. Are they ASTM tests, absolutely not.
Sure, VOA's of those oils, without any "ranking" system is fine. It's when one starts drawing conclusions about which one is better than another from that EXTREMELY limited information that we have an issue.
Just wondering why you are so invested in countering this thread. You apparently want to spend time on this…
I counter misinformation, that's one of the reasons I have 50,000 posts, I contribute a lot.
 
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Sure, VOA's of those oils, without any "ranking" system is fine. It's when one starts drawing conclusions about which one is better than another from that EXTREMELY limited information that we have an issue.

I counter misinformation, that's one of the reasons I have 50,000 posts, I contribute a lot.
Sounds like you DID see the video…. or you did not and you are contributing.
 
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