synthetics, filtration, wear metals: a perspective

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dnewton3

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I’ve often been very vocal in professing that synthetic fluids and bypass filtration are tools for making the fluids last longer in service, and not the equipment. I’ve been challenged in a couple PM’s to show the rationale, so here goes.

Consider the available resources we have today that we commonly use and hear about on BITOG. UOA’s (and to a lesser degree, Particle Counts) give us very good data to use. But we have to know how to interpret the data, and where to apply the resultant decisions. UOA’s show us a spectral analysis of particles in the 1-5um range. They don’t tell us the size, but they tell us the composition and frequency of occurrence (ppm). With that in mind, we make assumptions of how well our equipment is enduring, based upon what type and quantity of metals are shed. For any given criteria, we have the fortune of lots of data accumulated here on BITOG, and through services such as Oil Analyzers and Blackstone, to name a few. From that, we acknowledge that certain accumulations are “normal”; i.e. – we place a numeric value as an upper limit. For example, we might say Cu should be no more than 8ppm, or Fe should be no more than 12ppm, and so on, for a “typical” exposure (duration = mileage). Anything above the limit indicates it’s time for an OCI; anything below the line represents continued use. And it’s not just wear metals, but viscosity, TBN, insolubles – we all know the drill, right?

Now, it’s very common to hear claims that synthetic oil, and bypass filtration, will protect equipment “better”. I’ve always been the contrarian that says “better” is a relative term, and that you can simply offset this perceived advantage by changing your conventional oil and filter more often. Therefore, synthetics and/or bypass filtration are tools for making lubricants last longer, not equipment.

In the graphs I’m putting forth, you have to accept that for the sake of clarity and expediency, I’ve made them of simple shapes and sizes. In reality, the ongoing ebb and flow of UOA’s do have the nature of some variability. The lines in the graph represent averages. If you were to take UOAs every 100 miles, you would get more data points, but overall they can be averaged to represent the slope of the lines. Further, I applied a bit of logic in that after you would OCI with fresh oil, there is always some amount of residual oil from the last load, so you never get a true “zero” ppm for any wear metal. In this case, I chose 2ppm of residual. What’s important to understand is that it’s not the values, but rather the area under the curve, that represents wear. I’ve put it in simple terms of “units” of wear. I took the quantity of ppm, and multiplied by the mileage factor (5,10,15, etc) to come up with a total area under the curve. The area under the curve shows us, in effect, the amount of wear that has been experienced as an expression of accumulated wear metals.

When you view the charts, notice that the total average of wear under the curve is identical. The reality is that there would surely be some small differences, but over the long haul, the anomalies would even out, and the total “average wear” unit would equal, or be darn close to it. I also concede that wear will show a small blip after an OCI, as touted by the SAE paper, but that paper is quite old by now and may not be relevant to today’s oils. These graphs take into account results, not inputs. They are indeed hypothetical, but they do represent the conceptual realization that there is some basic growth pattern in wear patterns over the lifecycle of an oil sump event.

When using UOA’s, you have (or should be) committed to using limits as the determining factor to OCI. If 10ppm is your upper limit, you’re not going to OCI until that 10ppm limit is reached. It could be Cu, Fe, Al, or whatever. It could be 10ppm, 12ppm, 7ppm; it doesn’t matter. The important thing to note is that DATA should drive the decision to OCI, and not emotion.

In this first graph, you’ll see that Synthetics and Bypass filtration can give a nice long OCI. That’s because they keep the ppm’s down well in the beginning of the graph. But look at the second half. You spend just as much time above the average as below the average. With that in mind, the total average wear is 180 units for this graph. The math is simple. The 2ppm for the whole 30k miles represents 60 units, and the triangles represent 120 units. The total is 180 units.

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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/dnewton/PPM_graph_1_1_oci.jpg

Now, look at this next graph. Conventional oil and filters are changed more often. But, again, we drive up to the 10ppm limit, and then OCI. Guess what? The area in the 6 smaller triangles is equivalent to the area in the one large triangle; 120 units. The net average wear is the same at 180 total units!

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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/dnewton/PPM_graph_2_6_oci.jpg

So, what is the conclusion to take away from this information? Did synthetics and bypass filtration protect better? No; not the way I see it. The average wear is the same. It’s important to note that the graphs are simple geometric shapes, and that reality throws curve balls at us some times. We surely realize that the slopes have some curve to them, but the concept to understand is that they will likely be of similar nature between the two scenarios; only the duration of exposure changes. The net conclusion is thus: synthetics and bypass filtration protect longer, but not better.

“Well, Dave, I’m taking better care of my equipment than you because I use synthetic and/or bypass filtration and I change my oil every 10k miles.” OK, go back and look at the charts. What you’ve done is move the “acceptable upper limit of wear” from 10ppm on the synthetic graph to somewhere down around 5ppm (you created a new limit on the Y-axis). We can accomplish the same thing with the conventional oil by just decreasing the OCI interval so that our limit is 5ppm as well. That might be estimated at 2.5k miles or so (as resultant on the X-axis). People often want to force conventional oil into a mandatory OCI term, but then judge it against a synthetic that is allowed to artificially lower the wear limits. Again, with UOA’s, the correct mentality is to establish acceptable wear limits, and run your oil out to the full term. If you do this, you don’t get less wear with synthetic and/or bypass filtration, you get more life cycle of the fluid. The reason synthetics and bypass filtration can show better numbers at the same OCI is because they are more capable. But it’s an unfair comparison. The goal is to limit wear, not OCI duration. It’s no different than asking one person to run 40 yards and measure them in seconds (time as a variable), but then tell the next person to run for 40 seconds and see how many yards they run (distance as a variable)! You have changed the fixed and variable metrics!

There is a side-line issue of synthetics being more, shall we say, temperature capable. That’s true, but only in a very narrow context. For cold weather, synthetics only offer a significant advantage below -15 deg F or so. But how many of us really operate in such an environment for much duration, if ever? Some do, but they are a very small minority. Further, what about heat protection? Presuming your cooling system is working correctly, conventional oils do just fine. Synthetics would only protect better if an overheated condition were to exist, and only for a limited time. As the temp rises quickly, there is a very small window of opportunity for the synthetic to succeed where the conventional would fail. After that window closes, any oil would fail, regardless of group composition. It is also true that synthetics resist evaporation somewhat better than conventional oils, but does that make the engine better protected? No, it simply means the synthetic oil lasts longer. The make-up oil is a consideration of cost, not wear.

Now, I’m sure that some of you might still be in the “Yeah, but …” camp. Well, I don’t know that I’ll ever be able to convince you otherwise; nor would you be able to convince me. We will have to agree to disagree. But in my mind, given the intent of wear analysis, synthetics and bypass filtration make fluids last longer, not equipment. If you don't run up to your established acceptable limits, you're cheating the fluid, and your wallet. And if you do run up to the acceptable limits, then wear is the same, and the return is in fluid life cycle; equipment life cycle is the same.
 
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Well, Dave, you're correct from the "sensible" way you approach it. How would those graphs be skewed if you alter the duration template for a like frequency template? Now we're going to be harder pressed to use conventional oil for 30k with or without bypass filtration (there may be some Frantz/MG users out there doing UOA with conventional
21.gif
) Your argument then would be that you're employing undue costs with the shorter OCI's to achieve a lower number than the 10ppm (preferred) condemnation limit.

Would that not be true?
 
Gary - I guess the data can be skewed (or more appropriately - stretched or compressed) by the imagination. Conventional oil with bypass, or synthetic fluids with no bypass, fall somewhere in between. The graphs would be compressed, but the analogy is the same.

The important thing to take from this is the UOA's should be used to establish limits. Safe limits. Why would you OCI any fluid before it's time? So if you OCI only when the wear is at the limit, then the net-average wear (area under the curve) is nearly identical. So, the fluids last longer, but the wear is the same.

So, in a nutshell, yes is the answer to your qeustion. Synthetics and bypass filtration are tools for making the fluids last longer, which is a fiscal decision. It's all about money.

And there are people who run dino oils with bypass with great success. In fact, Arkapigdiesel is doing it right now. The data I'm tracking shows that this is probably the most cost effective way for intermediate mileage on a year basis (perhaps 20-30k miles a year).
 
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I agree with Dave. Synthetics buy you time. Of course you have to define what synthetic means these days, as it has sort of lost it's meaning. ??

Amsoil on average has about a 33% greater Tbn than most conventional oils. This just buys you time before having to change out the oil from contaminants and other combustion byproducts.

Altering the operating conditions could change results dramatically if for instance you have a turbo, race or operate in extreme cold as mentioned above. I'd venture to say that wear could be significantly better with synthetics in those circumstances than conventional oil. However, determining where those conditions begin is tricky.

In speaking with people that work in the industry over the years, it's clear that most of us don't need synthetics. Synthetics are on the rise though and this is due to higher hp engines that generate more heat and longer drain intervals. The OEM OCI is usually sufficient with any API quality oil. The test conditions automakers put many of their own engines through is often more harsh than most of us could replicate.

With more emphasis being placed on turbo protection for GF-5, I'd say that the next generation of API oils are going to be very durable.
 
Well, Dave, I'm just being my critical self here
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You are measuring on a "equivalency of wear indicators" here and looking at the difference in duration of use.

As anyone knows, X/Y=Y/X (that is, miles/gallon = a fractional gallons/mile) ..but you left that "converted view" out of the conclusion. Now it would surely make no economical sense to operate that way.

I don't disagree with you at all. I'm merely offering the reciprocal/congruent/ying:yang "if correct ..this must also be true".

Yes, synthetics (most) and bypass filtration maintain preferred conditions over a longer duration. In any cost:benefit analysis, void of any other exclusionary or exceptional mitigators/aggravators, that's about the only way they work.
 
The Wear Rate is the total amount of wear - expressed in ppm - divided by the OCI. So in these two cases we have:

For graph #1: 8 ppm/30k = .267 ppm/1000 miles

For graph #2: 8 ppm/5k = 1.6 ppm/1000 miles

Its the relative slopes of these lines that matter, NOT the area under the plots.
 
I'd like to rig up a HEPA filter on the air inlet of an engine, a magnetic filter in the oil stream, and use cheap conventional oil and filters over intervals determined by chemical limits. Once you eliminate the iron wear particles and road dust, there isn't much left to cause further wear.
 
Originally Posted By: TeeDub


Its the relative slopes of these lines that matter, NOT the area under the plots.


Exactly my point of asking how he arrived at the slope.
 
First, if 8ppm is at the end of the OCI then the residual oil would need to be 25% of total capacity to get 2ppm residual at the start of OCI. Only engine builder would really know how much resides in the engine but 2ppm sounds high. Or is this based on actual data ?

Second, more importantly, are the ppm at end points based on actual data ? Or hypothetical ?

Finally, what happens with synthetic and convention filter ? Is OCI x2 conventional oil ?
 
You guys are over-thinking this.

1) the numbers were swags. This isn't data from some test. But the relative concept is accurate. I guessed at 2ppm for a residual. It really doesn't matter. Use 3, or 1, or none if you want. It will change the total average wear units under the curve, but it won't change the concept.

2) TeeDub and Pablo: you're correct that the wear RATES are different; that's self evident and that's why the syn/bypass can extend and OCI out so much futher. But the perspective I'm trying to drive home to everyone is that TOTAL wear (represented by the shaded area under the curves) is the same for both scenarios. I titled it "average wear" expressed in "units" The "average wear" represented is the same for both graphs. I was NOT discussing the average RATE of wear, but the average TOTAL of wear.

3) Gary - you and are are both trying to circle the wagons at the same encampment, but we're on the oposite sides of the fire. My whole point of this perspective is that OCI's in relation to UOAs is a financial decision, not a wear decision. You and I are stating the same thing from different views. I do see the "ying" from your viewpoint, vs. my "yang". I am limiting wear, and varying OCI, while you're stating that some would perfer to limit OCI, and vary wear. But why limit OCI duration? You're not maximizing your fluid, regardless of brand/grade/group choice? This is why the question of "which oil is better" is impossible to answer without defining all the surrounding criteria and conditions.

Regarding the slopes, guys, I addressed that. They are simple geometric shapes that make the math easy. I could have put some curvature into them, and then run the calculus programs to come up with the total area under the curve, but it would have made the math much more difficult that it has to be, to eximplfy the concept.

Again, the concept is this: if you use UOA's to understand how much "wear" is permissible, then you'll run any chosen fluid out to that reasonable limit, for whatever criteria you're judging. Synthetics and bypass filtration buy you time of fluid exposure, not extended life of equipment.

There are 180 units shaded in yellow in each graph, therefore, the amount of wear that has occured in each scenario is the same. If the amount of wear is the same, both over the same total duration (30k miles), then the engine WITH syn/bypass is not wearing any better than the one without. Run the scenarios out to 90k miles, with 3 OCI's for the syn/bypass and 18 for the conventional system, and the only thing that changes is the TOTAL wear units, but they stay the same relative to each other. The implication? Neither engine is "lasting longer" than the other. One is cheaper to operate, but the "wear" is the same! The conclusion? (I must sound like a broken record by now ...) syn's/bypass don't give longer equipement life, they make fluids last longer in service.

The lesser wear RATE of a syn/bypass system is the exact reason it makes good economic sense in high-mileage applications.

But for those bound by warranty (or OCD) to OCI once a year with less than 10k miles, one or two "conventional" OCI's typically make more sense. And for every guy that does a yearly OCI with 10k on syn/bypass, there is a guy that can achieve that same result with more "conventional" OCI's.

For every application, there is a breakover point. Go less than X,xxx miles a year, and conventional OCI's make more sense. Over that, and syn/bypass make sense. It's a matter of money. But TOTAL WEAR of an engine is a matter of committment to UOAs and established limits, and can be manipulated by the x/y vs. y/x relationships, as Gary put it. And that is the very acknowledgement that shows syn's/bypass don't make engines last longer, they make fluids last longer.

One of my favorite grahps of engine life cycle is the one on the Oil Guard website. It shows how, as you approach 10um, the life cycle becomes almost infinite. And the implication is that a byapss filter can make an engine last nearly "forever". But what you should really glean from this is that a cleaner fluid can make the engine last longer. Cleaner system fluids can be achieved in two ways; better filtration, or a sump dump and refill. It's two means to the same end.

The bottom line is one should establish acceptable wear limits, UOA, then OCI when the limits are reached, maximizing whatever fluid/filter you have chosen. You should set wear limits as the "fixed" criteria, and then "vary" the OCI duration. If you try to do it the other way around, then what's the point of a UOA? Where's the value of knowing you your wear metals if you have no intent of using the data for any rational decision? Knowledge for the sake of itself is called "trivia"; it has no significant value. Who cares what your Cu, Fe, Al and such are, if you're not going to use them to determine when to change the oil?

Given: if total wear is "fixed" and not "variable"
Question: how can the equipment in graph 1 last any longer than equipment graph 2?
Answer: it doesn't. But the fluids do ...
 
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Even if you could show a difference in wear at what point would point (mileage) would that difference between conventional changed more frequently and synthetics in terms of engine being able to function within acceptable limits. No one knows.

I use syntehtics for the most part, not to extend engine life ( I agree with your analysis) but for extended changes and some additional piece of mind. Further, genetics, the quality of the engine itself is the huge factor that is impossible to put into the equation.
 
With regards to point #2 above, the argument simply makes NO sense at all. If a lubricated, mechanical component wears at a slower rate and stays cleaner internally (a bypass filter helps here by removing by-products of oil oxidation), it will last longer and need fewer repairs.
 
perhaps GF-4, SM dino is doing as good as synthetic in wear department. but that is one department of oil related protection in engine. i am not too concern about wear with modern oil in modern engines, even wear as high as 30 ppm in uoa, that is still.. 30 part per million.. such a small number, the differences between oils, maybe even smaller at only 5 PPM. that is probably below the many toxin EPA or FDA guideline!
thanks for the data and time, i will sleep even better!!
 
I think Bill in Utah falls into the scenario here ( although I'm not quite sure where)...he tracks his wear with OCIs and establishes a reasonable maintenance schedule that allows oil sevice of his autos with the cheapest oils available.

And he gets hundreds of thousands of miles out of his cars with no oil related problems whatsoever.

I think I got that right.....
 
TeeDub - you're still in the wear "rate" mentality. But the concept to grasp is "total" wear.

Shift your thinking; why do we UOA? To track wear metals, among other things. The wear metals are used as one of the main indiators as to WHEN to OCI (or at least is should be - although UOA's here are often a matter of joy, and not logic).

That in mind, would you not be running the fluid up to the safe limit of exposure? If so, then total WEAR (not wear rate) is the same. That's what the graphs show.

Your comment of "... wears at a slower rate and stays cleaner ..." indicates that you are not transitioning to the concept to cross over the thresh-hold from "below" average to "above" average in total wear. The geometric shapes don't lie. There is just as much area under the one large triangle as there is under the six smaller triangles. The triangles themselves spend as much time above the average as below it. The net effect is TOTAL WEAR is equal.

The math and geometry are sound. Neither engine has an advantage in wear. The advantage of the syn/bypass is fewer OCI's; it does not make the engine go any further - just your money.
 
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Newt,

Go back and look at how you've defined the units on your "Y" axis and you'll see why you're mistaken about this. By the way, how do you come up with a wear metal concentration @ T=0?
 
Ok, I agree with the concept but you started by saying we have all this UOA data then you don't use it. Of course we have little with bypass filtration but a few data points are in order even in this case.

Theory doesn't help me on to determine economics for OCI & UOA is expensive way to determine so using 100-200 data points on 'existing' UOA is value added. That seems reasonable for conventional filtering dino vs. synth.

Let me simplify; if synth cost x2 dino, does it allow x2 OCI with same wear ON AVERAGE ? (this assume no labor cost & neglects filter issues)

This, I believe, is the economic dilemma.
 
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