PAO (up to 70%) in some Lucas Synthetics

[kschachn]

Nice try, but not every company makes the truly worthless products like this one does. Show me the worthless products that ExxonMobil sells? What about SOPUS? I agree that this oil may not be worthless, in fact I don’t think that it is, but one must look at the culture of the company in terms of their products in an overall way. There is no way I would buy anything from these people even if one or two isolated products were legit.

For me I really don’t want to have to spend a bunch of time trying to sort out the worthless from the good. Maybe you don’t mind spending your time doing that but I would rather not.

 

[RyanY]

Nice try, but not every company makes the truly worthless products like this one does. Show me the worthless products that ExxonMobil sells? What about SOPUS? I agree that this oil may not be worthless, in fact I don’t think that it is, but one must look at the culture of the company in terms of their products in an overall way. There is no way I would buy anything from these people even if one or two isolated products were legit.

For me I really don’t want to have to spend a bunch of time trying to sort out the worthless from the good.

I certainly agree that not all companies produce total junk, but this is not to say that some of their stuff isn't sub par. Take Fram for example. The PH series may be okay now but not too long ago was widely thought to be problematic. Should we avoid the XG series just because it is produced by the same manufacturer?

 

[ka9mnx]

5w30 from them

https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_Syn-SAE_5W-30.pdf

Thanks for the post. ACEA A1-12 and A5-12. Pretty outdated specs.

 

[OVERKILL]

I agree that some of the Lucas products are worthless, but this does not mean that all of their products are junk. Just like every other company...some items are top notch and others are turds.

My point is that I won't avoid an entire company just because they sell a few turds. But hopefully after a few experiences I will have the wherewithal to distinguish the turds from the treasures.

But it's not a turd in this case, it's downright deception. A company willing to work that angle to make a buck will never get any of my business.

To use an analogy here: Would you willingly continue do business with a guy who was intentionally selling you "match-grade ammunition" that was guaranteed to shoot better than anything you've ever shot, but was in fact Chinese milsurp? Just because he might also carry some boxes of decent regular ammo doesn't make his practice any less disgusting.

With plenty of offerings available from companies that don't choose to mislead and deceive consumers, why choose to do business with one that does?

 

[OVERKILL]

I certainly agree that not all companies produce total junk, but this is not to say that some of their stuff isn't sub par. Take Fram for example. The PH series may be okay now but not too long ago was widely thought to be problematic. Should we avoid the XG series just because it is produced by the same manufacturer?

FRAM has never had deceptive advertising. While some people, myself included, haven't historically been fans of the fibre media end-caps, the company has never claimed fantastic capabilities their product isn't capable of.

Also, I don't think the TG has ever changed, it's the same as it always was with the fibre endcaps and metal centre tube with the ADBV making up the top seal to the baseplate and the relief and retainer spring sealing against the media at the bottom. I greatly prefer the Ultra but the TG gets the job done, even if it is ugly.

 

[Tomat]

Lucas zddp break in additive is one best zddp you can buy in store self

 

[RDY4WAR]

Lucas zddp break in additive is one best zddp you can buy in store self

Even that's going down the wrong path though. Just pouring that in a conventional API oil doesn't make it a break-in oil. Break-in oils are as much about what they don't contain as what they do. No friction modifiers, no viscosity modifiers, and minimal detergents.

 

[blingo]

The (probably very heavy) PIB in the 0W-40 and 0W-30 looks less common. As it obviously need not be a pure relic from the sixties, why is it there? Did the industry arrive at that much departure from some other VII/thickeners at all costs and this is just Lucas' way of being cheap but still avoid some, or what would be the most urgent reasoning on that? (I know I should probably ask over at the russian club what it tends to mean in wintertime or summertime, HC or PAO etc., but there'd always be the language...

 

[wemay]

Lots of salient points, thanks everyone.

 

[4WD]

Even that's going down the wrong path though. Just pouring that in a conventional API oil doesn't make it a break-in oil. Break-in oils are as much about what they don't contain as what they do. No friction modifiers, no viscosity modifiers, and minimal detergents.

I have drawn the “really” ? quote here for being an advocate of an early oil change with a new vehicle … yet on a rebuilt motor … some done with the attention to detail that Clinebarger displays … it’s a ritual to do a short run and dump the oil.
What is the main difference in these two ?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I can honestly say that I trust Lucas to make at least some quality products...just like I trust other companies to do the same. Trial and error is the only way to really know whether a product works, and hopefully the anti-Lucas crowd has actually tried their products before throwing shade. Regardless, their power steering fluid is the best I have used. Whether or not it "extends life of pumps" or not is anybody's guess, but it just works...quieted and smoothed the steering on both vehicles. Now, their fuel system cleaner didn't seem to do much of anything, but this null effect is similar to that of most other fuel cleaners. I can't speak for their motor oils as I have not tried them.

I had the same experience with Yellow bottle Prestone PSF on my recent used car purchase. Sucked out a half bottle and put put in the new. Improvement Immediately. I thought I was going to need a new rack The shuttle valve was bouncing around so much.

Guys If you have some miles ( over 50K) Renew that PSF!

 

[RDY4WAR]

I have drawn the “really” ? quote here for being an advocate of an early oil change with a new vehicle … yet on a rebuilt motor … some done with the attention to detail that Clinebarger displays … it’s a ritual to do a short run and dump the oil.
What is the main difference in these two ?

The reason I like to dump the oil soon with a new engine is because you will always have very small metal particles in the oil of a fresh engine. No matter how well you machine the parts, and how well you clean them prior to assembly, there's always going to be some microasperities that get knocked off the moment the engine is fired for the first time. Many of these particles are
As far as the engine's break-in, about 90% of it occurs in the first 10 seconds after you start it up for the first time. The rest of the break-in is getting that last 10% done, establishing anti-wear tribofilms where they need to be, and ensuring uniformity for maximum life expectancy. This is achieved with varying rpm and load over several heat cycles.

For OEM engines, a test fire in the factory takes care of that 90% and the engine is usually solid enough to last well past the warranty period. They aren't as concerned with getting that last 10%. For someone like me, who is OCD when it comes to pulling every last 0.5 hp possible in reduced friction and efficiency, that last 10% is vitally important. It's the difference between an engine that will be competitive in its class and one that won't even qualify. It's the difference between an engine with 3% leakdown and one with
Friction modifiers and viscosity modifiers both reduce friction in mixed lubrication, reducing the shear stress on the oil film itself, which actually reduces the reactivity of ZDDP. This is the same reason PAO base oils aren't recommended for break-in. Shear stress and friction are excellent drivers of ZDDP reactivity, and when you have a fresh engine with no ZDDP film established, getting it activated as quick as possible is important. Detergents can interfere with ZDDP at high concentrations so you only want enough to keep down acidity during the short break-in. Driven BR30, for example, is ~2800 ppm Zn, ~2600 ppm P, ~300 ppm Ca, 0 ppm Mg, and 0 ppm Mo in a straight 30 grade base oil. The type of ZDDP is also a less stable / more reactive secondary alkyl ZDDP to ensure fast reactivity.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Unless they have approvals, why does it matter?

The API cert is self reporting, and with basestock wiggle room and other gimme's, you may have a stack of cert paper in your file cabinet that is better than nothing, but this doesn't in any way insure the Golden Chalice.
A few Of the very Top Three have been found with their pants down over the past couple decades with batches of oil that DIDN'T meet minimum requirements. There is no Motor oil FDA. And though we all can appreciate the work of PQIA - they aren't doing continuous sampling with is concomitant insurances. I haven't looked but hopefully some of these blenders are ISO 9001-2008 certified facilities.

I will say I have been impressed with LUCAS PROFESSIONAL motorsport product - on PAPER at least. It is too bad the tons of junk they peddle sullies their reputation for many of us.

- but then the masses swear by and cling to LOS; and I also include SeaFoam and MMO to the list of "throw money away" product.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I had the same experience with Yellow bottle Prestone PSF on my recent used car purchase. Sucked out a half bottle and put put in the new. Improvement Immediately. I thought I was going to need a new rack The shuttle valve was bouncing around so much.

Guys If you have some miles ( over 50K) Renew that PSF!

For cars that use ATF as PSF, I use Valvoline MaxLife ATF. It's always kept things running smooth. Whether it was a cooler line flush or just turkey basting the reservoir several times, it's smoothed things out.

 

[edyvw]

I'd bet it isnt that smple and that there is a per (quantity) surcharge.

No there is not. I worked on VW approval process.

 

[edyvw]

What are some of the current fee structures in place today?

Whats dexos license / approval cost ?

I do not know about Dexos. Though, I would not be surprised if GM does that as they have to make money somewhere.
Europeans do not do that garbage. Their approval process is designed to help customer identify what oil they need and that is it.

 

[UncleDave]

I do not know about Dexos. Though, I would not be surprised if GM does that as they have to make money somewhere.
Europeans do not do that garbage. Their approval process is designed to help customer identify what oil they need and that is it.

You sure about that ? I dont see how the anyone can run and or enforce a standard without some sort of licensing fee.

Here is the API license and fee structure.

https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/application-and-fees#tab-fees
Once you start adding up all the fees for all the certs that request them I'd imagine the costs start to add up pretty quickly.

Does Benz charge? BMW? How about ILSAC?

Once you agree to any volume fee now you have to track and report, invoice etcetera...

I think many of you guys underestimate the cost and complexities of what a jug of approvals and licenses actually costs.

Put Lucas aside - why would otherwise good product like Amsoil blow it off?

 

[kschachn]

So you’re saying that it is better than an oil would have no licenses, approvals or certifications because they cost money?

No thank you. I trust the existing system to tell me the truth far more than I trust some blenders. What’s funny about your statement is that generally the uncertified oils cost more than the ones that have the approvals.

 

[UncleDave]

Perhaps in some instances, but the overall benefit is guaranteed performance to an established standard. I think the bigger racket are the blenders that obfuscate which approvals and licenses the oil has and does not have, and then often word it as to deceive.

Makes sense as long as the license/ approval is legitimately earned or paid for.

Now that you bring up blenders I guess Ive always bought (at least what I believed ) was the real thing from big name legit companies
I never really bought from them, but there sure seem to be creative descriptions as to content.

I've become jaded on certifications paying through the nose to prove what I already have over and over.
Here's a power supply we sell, with some units and the latest racket in my u is industry is the Nom mark.
This Nom is now Mexico asking for 2K per product (we have 200) to certify parts and product that have already been cert'd around the world.

 

[UncleDave]

So you’re saying that it is better than an oil would have no licenses, approvals or certifications because they cost money?

No I did not say that.