Painting over stained cleared trim

[LeakySeals]

Doing a side job. Room rehab. Paper down, patch the walls, prime, paint. Paint ceilings and trim. The trim is 70's stain and clear. Maybe oil, not sure. Has a few dings. Plan on a light sand, oil based primer, water based semi over the top. Needs some caulking around the walls. Should I caulk before or after paint/primer coat? Can I paint right over the caulk with primer, or calk after the primer and paint over it? Not sure if I can paint over caulk at all.

 

[dishdude]

Make sure you use paintable caulk and you'll be fine. I'm not so sure you need oil based primer, water based Kilz should be just fine.

 

[demarpaint]

The best way to do it would be to prepare the surface as you mentioned, and apply your oil primer. Let that dry completely and then caulk it. Make sure the caulking totally dries before top coating, use a good quality paintable caulking. If you are really a fanatic, you would apply a second coat of primer after that caulking is totally dry, then do your painting. You can skip that step if you like. I laid out the best possible way of doing it, it takes a longer time but is worth the effort if you don't mind a little extra work/time. HTH

If you have a Sherwin Williams dealer near you grab their Power House 60 year caulking, it won't disappoint!

 

[Coprolite]

Why the oil base primer?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Why the oil base primer?


It's what 32 years of professional painting has taught me. lol It's better for that application than a latex primer. For starters it levels better on trim, it's less "ropey", and offers a better more uniform finish for a latex top coat. Also if the finish that is currently on the surface has spots of raw unfinished wood, or stained wood that was sanded through or missed by the original coating the oil will seal it better. Will a latex primer work, sure, are there better choices? Yes, an oil primer.

 

[Coprolite]

Thanks for the explanation Demarpaint.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Thanks for the explanation Demarpaint.


No problem, if you need painting help PM me if you like!

 

[LeakySeals]

Thanks. Not my trade, just word of mouth side jobs. I do what painters wont do. Like take paper down thats been up for decades from new on walls that were never properly finished. With stains, glue, backing, a disaster to get off. Use some prior autobody experience to spackle any tears. And there usually are. Several. Thats where the oil based primer shines. Penetrates, seals, hardens. People don't like the smell or the cleanup. But after its done all the surrounding neighbors light up my phone

I do occasional deck and house painting too. Oil again, cover up the water based enviro friendly junk sold today. One of my oil paint shake shingle stain jobs is going on 20 years. Drove by and looked. No mildew, no chips, going strong.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Thanks. Not my trade, just word of mouth side jobs. I do what painters wont do. Like take paper down thats been up for decades from new on walls that were never properly finished. With stains, glue, backing, a disaster to get off. Use some prior autobody experience to spackle any tears. And there usually are. Several. Thats where the oil based primer shines. Penetrates, seals, hardens. People don't like the smell or the cleanup. But after its done all the surrounding neighbors light up my phone

I do occasional deck and house painting too. Oil again, cover up the water based enviro friendly junk sold today. One of my oil paint shake shingle stain jobs is going on 20 years. Drove by and looked. No mildew, no chips, going strong.


If you're doing paper removal and have to deal with the tears, and other issues associated with it, and not deal with the lingering stink of oil primer check out Zinsser Gardz Primer. You'll love it!

 

[doitmyself]

Dermapaint,

Does a dedicated primer like the Kilz or Zinsser products work better than just an oil based primer from whatever paint company?


My only additional recommendation to the OP is to clean the wood work first to get any grease type coatings off, especially the door trim where hands touch. Otherwise, you might be scuff sanding stuff into the trim that might affect adhesion.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Dermapaint,

Does a dedicated primer like the Kilz or Zinsser products work better than just an oil based primer from whatever paint company?


My only additional recommendation to the OP is to clean the wood work first to get any grease type coatings off, especially the door trim where hands touch. Otherwise, you might be scuff sanding stuff into the trim that might affect adhesion.


I don't like Kilz because it dries too fast, the brushes get snotty and its just a PITA to use. Zinsser Alkyd Cover Stain is very good, and also holds stains back, it dries fast, but the smell is not for the sensitive to smell types. Benjamin Moore Fresh Start oil primer is very good, brushes out and levels well, the only issue is if you have a lot of areas that might bleed through Cover Stain would be better. That doesn't seem to be an issue in this thread.

Good point about cleaning, something I took for granted here, because its second nature for us. I like to clean the surface before I sand it, and then a quick wipe down to be sure its dust free before I prime. One thing to keep in mind with oil primer is that if you are cleaning with any cleaners make sure the surface is totally dry before you prime it.

 

[mechtech2]

Of course you can paint over caulk. [not silicone]
You are doing a paying job and don't realize this?!

 

[LeakySeals]

Yeah the Kilz original is tough to use and smells pretty bad. Will try the Zinzer next time. I spent yesterday taking the popcorn ceiling down and finish wall, prep. Today the whole room - walls, ceiling, and trim gets a coat of the stinky stuff.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Yeah the Kilz original is tough to use and smells pretty bad. Will try the Zinzer next time. I spent yesterday taking the popcorn ceiling down and finish wall, prep. Today the whole room - walls, ceiling, and trim gets a coat of the stinky stuff.


Have fun!

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Of course you can paint over caulk. [not silicone]
You are doing a paying job and don't realize this?!

This is not my trade. I'd rather ask a stupid question than mess up somebody's house. The last job I did there were problems with the existing the paint job. Chipped paint over the caulking only. I re-caulked and repainted, but it left me curious why. I don't want my jobs doing that in a few years.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Yeah the Kilz original is tough to use and smells pretty bad. Will try the Zinzer next time. I spent yesterday taking the popcorn ceiling down and finish wall, prep. Today the whole room - walls, ceiling, and trim gets a coat of the stinky stuff.


Have fun!

Thanks. The popcorn ceiling take down was a mess of epic proportions. Spent an hour with a shop vac getting the room cleaned up. Whoever built the house never primed, just sprayed the popcorn up on the brown board 40 years ago. So when the owners went to paint, down it came. The popcorn looks like joint compound/something. Once the walls were stripped of wall paper and ceilings stripped of popcorn they tell me...that nobody would do either job, nobody would call back. Because the pros know better.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Have fun!

Question.. I'm nervous about doing any bodywork on the ceiling without something covering the brown board. It scrapes and puffs up easy. I'd rather use mud after priming/sealing the ceiling. Sand on that surface rather than risk getting the paper puffed up or a tear. Then primer again in those repair areas. Is that way ok?

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Have fun!

Question.. I'm nervous about doing any bodywork on the ceiling without something covering the brown board. It scrapes and puffs up easy. I'd rather use mud after priming/sealing the ceiling. Sand on that surface rather than risk getting the paper puffed up or a tear. Then primer again in those repair areas. Is that way ok?


Maybe dermapaint can tell us more about the Zinsser Gardz primer and if it would be ideal for your application?? It sounds like it is the Valvolene Maxlife of primers.

http://www.rustoleum.com/cbgproduct.asp?pid=221
http://jackpauhl.blogspot.com/2009/01/zinsser-gardz-problem-surface-sealer.html

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Have fun!

Question.. I'm nervous about doing any bodywork on the ceiling without something covering the brown board. It scrapes and puffs up easy. I'd rather use mud after priming/sealing the ceiling. Sand on that surface rather than risk getting the paper puffed up or a tear. Then primer again in those repair areas. Is that way ok?


Sorry I didn't answer this sooner, it fell off my radar. Gardz was designed for drywall repair, from damage occurring to it when paper was removed etc. It will solidify the surface, and lock down anything that's punky or loose. Keep in mind you do have to get anything that is obviously failing down. You apply the product, then do your spackling. Once the spackle work is done the next step would be to spot prime the spackle work with Gardz if paper is going up. [Wallpaper, that if you hold a business card to the back you can't see the writing through the front of it], or a good latex or oil primer if you plan on painting, or if you can see the business card through the paper. If you plan on papering let me know and I'll walk you through fool proof prep so you won't have a problem!

Now one thing to keep in mind, sometimes brown board bleeds, and would require a primer like Aqua-lock, Bulls-eye 123, or something like Kilz, or Cover Stain. The best thing to do is test the worst area for bleed through, and test the primer you plan on using to see if it holds the staining back. Typically water staining would need something like Cover Stain, and really severe cases Bin. If you have pictures of areas of concern let me know and I'll see if I can determine from the picture what's best.

Once you try Gardz for drywall repair you'll be hooked!!!!!!

 

[LeakySeals]

Everything in that room was sanded with a combination of mesh on a handle and 220 by hand. yesterday the entire room - ceiling, walls, and trim has 1 coat of kilz original oil sealer/primer on it. I bought before you told me. Will definitely get the Gardz next time, that room was making me dizzy, had to abandon the smell was so bad. The roof did bleed in spots like you said. Looks like the roof had water along a joist before which would explain why the popcorn was coming down. A second heavy dose of Kilz in that area made it disappear. Room stinks to high heaven. Left a fan on but their heat came on so they are going to be dealing with it. Time for ceiling paint, caulk and paint the trim. Hoping to finish Friday with another 12 hour day.