P4, rotation and best-on-back issues

[faramir9]

Hi all. New poster here, after lurking awhile.

I run Pirelli P4s on a 2004 Chevy (Malibu) Classic---the fleet version of the 1997-2003 body style 'bu, but with the 2.2L Ecotec. The P4s have a hair less than 30K miles on them in a hair more than three years.

Overall I am happy with these tires, though I brace for the increased noise P4 owners report as they wear. Last night they got me home through torrential rain, with no problems.

One issue: One of the tires picked up a nail last year. No telling how long it was in there; the only warning sign was a slow leak in one tire, while the others held pressure perfectly.

The nail caused that tire to wear much faster than the others. It is now 5.5/32 while the others are 7.5 to 8. I keep the 'bad' tire on the left rear to minimize wear, and do not rotate for that reason. (I blew the Pirelli treadwear warranty anyway, as it requires 4k rotation intervals; I do about 6k. It pays to read fine print in warranties at time of purchase.)

This plan works well so far. Two potential issues I look out for: At some point the RR tire will have more tread than the front tires, as they gradually wear down to near the LR tire tread-level.

Also the best-tires-on-rear mantra I've read about here and elsewhere. I get the concept, but I don't think a difference of 2/32---less than that as the front tires wear faster---matters much from front to back, with the same tires in mid-life. The static difference between the RR and LR makes me ponder, though. You don't hear much about that issue.

At some point I should get two new tires for one of the axles---leave that debate open for now---and sell the decent one, now on the RR. It's too soon to do that now: Apart from the $$$ aspect I can't deal with tossing an 85k tire at 30k with plenty of tread left.

IOW: When you have one relative bad tire out of four and the set is not brand-new there is no good solution---unless one of you knows of one. That's why I am here.

Thanks and looking forward to fun here.

 

[faramir9]

Originally Posted By: faramir9
Hi all. New poster here, after lurking awhile.

I run Pirelli P4s on a 2004 Chevy (Malibu) Classic---the fleet version of the 1997-2003 body style 'bu, but with the 2.2L Ecotec. The P4s have a hair less than 30K miles on them in a hair more than three years.

Overall I am happy with these tires, though I brace for the increased noise P4 owners report as they wear. Last night they got me home through torrential rain, with no problems.

One issue: One of the tires picked up a nail last year. No telling how long it was in there; the only warning sign was a slow leak in one tire, while the others held pressure perfectly.

The nail caused that tire to wear much faster than the others. It is now 5.5/32 while the others are 7.5 to 8. I keep the 'bad' tire on the left rear to minimize wear, and do not rotate for that reason. (I blew the Pirelli treadwear warranty anyway, as it requires 4k rotation intervals; I do about 6k. It pays to read fine print in warranties at time of purchase.)

This plan works well so far. Two potential issues I look out for: At some point the RR tire will have more tread than the front tires, as they gradually wear down to near the LR tire tread-level.

Also the best-tires-on-rear mantra I've read about here and elsewhere. I get the concept, but I don't think a difference of 2/32---less than that as the front tires wear faster---matters much from front to back, with the same tires in mid-life. The static difference between the RR and LR makes me ponder, though. You don't hear much about that issue.

At some point I should get two new tires for one of the axles---leave that debate open for now---and sell the decent one, now on the RR. It's too soon to do that now: Apart from the $$$ aspect I can't deal with tossing an 85k tire at 30k with plenty of tread left.

IOW: When you have one relative bad tire out of four and the set is not brand-new there is no good solution---unless one of you knows of one. That's why I am here.

Thanks and looking forward to fun here.


P.S. For what it's worth: The set of P4s I got in early May 2009 included three tires from Brazil and one from China. Don't ask me how or why; the shop had a bunch of P4s in most standard sizes on hand. I did not notice this till recently. (When I kicked my tire-obsessiveness up one notch from its already fairly high level, after surfing this forum....)

Point is that the 'bad' tire with less tread after a nail puncture is the one from China. Could be coincidence; maybe.

 

[Eddie]

I saw that with a set of Michelin tires. 3 came from England and 1 from France? Not to sure about the countries but, the car handled weird and when it was taken back to the tire place the difference was found. Same tire, same model and same tread pattern but, sure effected the handling when driven in a sporting manner. Something to check when one buys new tires I guess. Ed

 

[Y_K]

I am on my 3rd set of P4: 2 tires made in China and 2 - in Brasil.
No difference. Every car-and-tire combo is different, and I found that for my Lincoln Town Car there is no better tire for my application in my area. No rotation - no noise. Rotations are overrated in my case. IMO they are created to elevate treadlife numbers and deny the claims. Rotation = more even wear, no-rotation = better grip on the convex highway surface. In my practice not much more even wear, as long as you watch your alignment

 

[faramir9]

Originally Posted By: Y_K
I am on my 3rd set of P4: 2 tires made in China and 2 - in Brasil.
No difference. Every car-and-tire combo is different, and I found that for my Lincoln Town Car there is no better tire for my application in my area. No rotation - no noise. Rotations are overrated in my case. IMO they are created to elevate treadlife numbers and deny the claims. Rotation = more even wear, no-rotation = better grip on the convex highway surface. In my practice not much more even wear, as long as you watch your alignment

No rotation is an option for RWD, probably. For a somewhat nose-heavy FWD sedan the front tires really will wear down much faster if the tires are not rotated; I have seen it.

Pirelli's 4k rotation interval to meet its treadlife warranty is pretty severe, though. I have not seen that with any other tire manufacturer---though I only saw the light about obsessing over tires in the past few years.

I paid $332 installed for this set of P4s, in May 2009. Even then that was the low end of average. Today it would be at least $100 more. So, I want to get full life out of these; plus they are good-to-excellent tires in all ways except fuel economy. Even that should improve a bit as the tread wears down....but not too far. When the 'nail' tire goes below 4/32 I will need to make a decision. (Gotta drive in NEPA winter; not terrible but has its moments.)

Thanks for the input.

 

[eljefino]

You may have an out if your car owner's manual says rotate at 6k. If pirelli says their tire fits your car, they may have to deal. Also your tire shop could be your friend or enemy when it comes to warranty quantification. If you have records ("records") of you "doing" it yourself, that should be enough. Under Magnuson Moss, pirelli would have to give you the free 4k rotations. Which they may actually have offered to do!

Anyway, I would not expect problems rotating the three until they get down to the bad one's level.

 

[jorton]

Check tire repair shops in your area for a used P4 that's better than the bad one.

 

[CharBaby]

In regards to the "Best tires on the Rear" scenaro: Was measured/tested by having the same brand/model tire(s) on a vehicle with 2 being new(@~10/32) and 2 being 1/2 worn(@ ~5/32).

Then, there may be some real differences where the tires are placed for foul weahter driving as shown in the "Testing". But, with only 1 or 2/32nds of differences between all 4 of the tires, I have personaly liked more tread debth on the front for snow traction as my tires all get replaced X4 and are always close in 32nds their whole life anyway!

I too have Pirelli P4's on my '04 Altima 2.5 in 205-65-16(it'll be 4 yrs in OCT'12) and I love'em! I don't have any noise to speak of except the evacuation of water during the rain and the sound isn't bothersome. I run these tire from(weather dependant) Oct-Nov to about May-June to state inspection time before putting on my summer wheels/tires in 17"

I like them in the snow/ice as well which is why I bought them. I wanted an A/S tire that did well in snow/ice. These tires corner noticably better than the OE Conit's and my 17" summer G/Y's. They also track better on the hiwy and keep balanced(no shake/shimmy) very well thus far. I just love'em!

I've been keeping the P4's on longer & longer each year(by a week or so) prior to putting on the summer wheels/tires. The P4's just don't call much attention to themselves by doing anything wrong that I can complain about with the exception of a bland sidewall and just not looking like much. They're a great tire for my application. I'm staying with'em!

 

[faramir9]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
You may have an out if your car owner's manual says rotate at 6k. If pirelli says their tire fits your car, they may have to deal. Also your tire shop could be your friend or enemy when it comes to warranty quantification. If you have records ("records") of you "doing" it yourself, that should be enough. Under Magnuson Moss, pirelli would have to give you the free 4k rotations. Which they may actually have offered to do!

Anyway, I would not expect problems rotating the three until they get down to the bad one's level.

Thanks, but I doubt I will ever use a tire treadlife warranty, as I never let tires run down to 2/32, for safety/winter traction.
However, I might use the treadlife warranty to convince a tire shop to credit a portion of the "unused life" against my next set of tires. I hear of this more and more lately; I wonder how if at all the tire manufacturer plays into it.

Apart from the 'nail' tire the other three are wearing well. I hear that tires wear faster in the first third or first half of their usable life, anyway. But thanks for the advice---and yes, a 4k rotation interval is quite severe. (Chevy recommends 6,000 to 7,500 in the owner's manual.) I wonder how many Pirelli tire owners know about it, and how many warranty claims get denied because of it.

 

[faramir9]

Originally Posted By: Char Baby
In regards to the "Best tires on the Rear" scenaro: Was measured/tested by having the same brand/model tire(s) on a vehicle with 2 being new(@~10/32) and 2 being 1/2 worn(@ ~5/32).

Then, there may be some real differences where the tires are placed for foul weahter driving as shown in the "Testing". But, with only 1 or 2/32nds of differences between all 4 of the tires, I have personaly liked more tread debth on the front for snow traction as my tires all get replaced X4 and are always close in 32nds their whole life anyway!

I too have Pirelli P4's on my '04 Altima 2.5 in 205-65-16(it'll be 4 yrs in OCT'12) and I love'em! I don't have any noise to speak of except the evacuation of water during the rain and the sound isn't bothersome. I run these tire from(weather dependant) Oct-Nov to about May-June to state inspection time before putting on my summer wheels/tires in 17"

I like them in the snow/ice as well which is why I bought them. I wanted an A/S tire that did well in snow/ice. These tires corner noticably better than the OE Conit's and my 17" summer G/Y's. They also track better on the hiwy and keep balanced(no shake/shimmy) very well thus far. I just love'em!

I've been keeping the P4's on longer & longer each year(by a week or so) prior to putting on the summer wheels/tires. The P4's just don't call much attention to themselves by doing anything wrong that I can complain about with the exception of a bland sidewall and just not looking like much. They're a great tire for my application. I'm staying with'em!

Did you notice your mpg go down a hair---not much, but enough to notice, maybe 1 to 1.5 mpg---when you installed the P4s? It might have just been the new tire/thicker tread effect, but fuel economy is not a strength of the P4s. Not terrible---but not a strength.

I agree the noise that others complain about is not noticeable so far to me. Unless we are talking 'very' loud, I will take some tire noise to get traction and treadlife. Of course, I once ran winter tires year-round, due to a bizarre set of financial and personal circumstances, never to be repeated. After that, tire noise is relative....

 

[CharBaby]

I have not noticed any MPG drop but, my MPG is always hovering around the EPA rating and above(even if only slightly) and I have had 3 brands of tires on this car.

One thing I do know is that the P4's are heavy in their size catigory(~3-lbs/tire) compared to other tires of the same size but, "smaller/narrower looking" than many other brands of tires for it's particular size. The OE Conti's were very light and wide/beefy/stout looking for their size(both tires being 205-65-16)

When I first received my P4's off the UPS/FedEx truck from DTD, I actually had to look at the size on the sidewall and make sure that DTD sent my the correct size. Not only were the P4's narrower but, shorter too. I thought they were 195's!

After the installation and drive, I was hooked. I love these tires for their conected to the road feel as well as many other things such as cornering and straight line tracking with good all weather traction. For this particular Nissan, I'm sticking with the P4's and don't even want to try another.

 

[CharBaby]

My particular EPA/MPG rating for an 04 Altima 2.5 4cyl is 23city/29hiwy up to 2007 and then IIRC, the EPA rating dropped even if there were no changes to the engine. Mine is now rated at 21c/27h due to the new testing method.

I have actually gotten 27 city on many summer tankfulls of gas and over 30 mpg in mixed driving(little city/little hiwy) all easy driving. In the winter, the MPG is allover the map. But mostly in the city MPG area, my gas mileage is always between 23-25 on every tank of gas during the warmer months.

I would love to see what my Hwy MPG is, if I could get the chance to drive on the highway for one full tank and measure the "strictly hiwy MPG". I betcha' I would get mid 30's with a light foot! "Fill up the tank and just drive til I need gas again", just to see the MPG!