Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2026
Isn't that what I said in the first place? gouging up front, and several weeks to go back down??
OPEC at maximum production
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Here is a site dedicated to the subject. Just came upon it so haven't got a read on whether it is legit or run by so called doom sayers. A lot of good stories from around the world.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html
You implied a 3-4 week delay before prices followed crude. I was saying no delay. We both agree on the gouging. I thought it was unusual that prices were being held down now without the usual gouging. I later discovered that diesel is still going up around the country. Increases in diesel wont show up immediately on your pocketbook but will be reflected later in the CPI as inflation on transportation costs and good. The election will be over before anyone notices these costs.
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2026
One reason i beleive that prices are not 'gouging' us that bad is because they were already higher than needed to begin with, No one lost any $$ and more uproar would start to take place. remember the second time gas started creeping up to $2 a gallon, everyone was asking why, when in fact Barrel prices were still $38 a barrel? they were gouging us and now when we caught it, all the sudden the barrel price started going up again. Since they already started hosing us, no need to raise the prices. But even if barell oil went back down to $30, we would not see it for 3-4 weeks.
You didn't catch my statement about them raising diesel prices over the last 4 weeks. Normally, diesel is 20+ cents less than regular unleaded during the summer months due to heating oil not being used. It is now priced the same as 91+ octane gas here. That is about 40 cents higher than it usually is relative to unleaded. Diesels pain is gas's gain.
Well it looks like for now that crude futures have peaked and it probably will go down from here. A whold lot of folks who jumped in when it was closing on $50 are going to get their Azz handeed to them big time. (Its now at $46.72) It should be an interesting week coming up.
I would suspect though that if it does settle down at a bit under $40 demand will shoot right back up. Really there are no lessons that will be learned here. Oh well, the market will take care of it.
I would suspect though that if it does settle down at a bit under $40 demand will shoot right back up. Really there are no lessons that will be learned here. Oh well, the market will take care of it.
The Alaskan oil is not a solution to anything except continuing the perception that oil is a cheap commodity. Its interesting that drilling is wanted but current administration yet raising MPG standards would make our cars "unsafe". The only people we have to blame for energy prices is ourselves due to high(est) energy consumption.
Alaskan oil can only supply 7.5% of our needs, almost the exact same amount of daily oil as we get from our single largest supplier, Saudi Arabia. Who needs that?
Dr. Leonard Evans:
CAFE has contributed to between 1,300 and 2,600 traffic deaths a year
"But from a technical point of view, there is no fuzziness or ambiguity of any sort whatsoever regarding CAFE. CAFE kills, and higher CAFE standards will kill even more."
Well it would allow us to keep up our wasteful ways a bit longer.
If Prudoe Bay is any indication, it would take 4 years to bring Anwar up to full production. We are currently increasing consumption at a 3% rate. By the time Anwar got up to full production capacity we would need 60% more than it could produce. Cutting consumption is worth far more that that.
As for Cafe killing. It is the automakers who are doing the killing. Look at what an expedition size vehicle could be achieving.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/technology/inthenews.htm
This technology has been around for awhile.
With regards to Anwar supplying the US great, we reduce oil prices and continue demand and then purchase later from Saudi. It seems the administrations policy in general to not look very far except maybe next election or so instead of long term.
The second piece on CAFE is opinion and cannot be taken as pure fact. I agree with the other poster, CAFE does not kill, poor manufacturing design practices due. European makes tend to hold up better in collisions than US/Asian makes as a whole. Obviouslt there are minute differences.
The reason for resistence to CAFE is the large lobby of automakers who cannot adopt with the times and excessive energy consumption of the US.
I however am not by any means helping the fuel situation either, I drive a WRX although very low emmission, it only achieves 25MPG which is poor for a small car but not the performance/AWD.
The second piece on CAFE is opinion and cannot be taken as pure fact. I agree with the other poster, CAFE does not kill, poor manufacturing design practices due. European makes tend to hold up better in collisions than US/Asian makes as a whole. Obviouslt there are minute differences.
The reason for resistence to CAFE is the large lobby of automakers who cannot adopt with the times and excessive energy consumption of the US.
I however am not by any means helping the fuel situation either, I drive a WRX although very low emmission, it only achieves 25MPG which is poor for a small car but not the performance/AWD.
Bingo!!
And then as rjundi mentioned we would then supplement our wasteful ways with more imported oil.
And for those of you who were around then: In 1974-I believe we had a 30% dependence on foreign oil but after Jimmy Carter's Energy Independence bombed (but at least he tried). We now are at 60%.
It seems so simple to see that we are spiraling down hill. It pains me that my Conservative Party is oblivious to the situation. The Democrats at least give lip service to the "conservation" word.
Here is a portion of Carter's Speech delivered on July 15, 1979. Too bad it wasn't followed upon by Reagan
"The energy crisis is real. It is worldwide. It is a clear and present danger to our nation. These are facts and we simply must face them.
What I have to say to you now about energy is simple and vitally important.
Point one: I am tonight setting a clear goal for the energy policy of the United States. Beginning this moment, this nation will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977-- never. From now on, every new addition to our demand for energy will be met from our own production and our own conservation. The generation-long growth in our dependence on foreign oil will be stopped dead in its tracks right now and then reversed as we move through the 1980s, for I am tonight setting the further goal of cutting our dependence on foreign oil by one-half by the end of the next decade -- a saving of over four and a half million barrels of imported oil per day.
Point two: To ensure that we meet these targets, I will use my presidential authority to set import quotas. I’m announcing tonight that for 1979 and 1980, I will forbid the entry into this country of one drop of foreign oil more than these goals allow. These quotas will ensure a reduction in imports even below the ambitious levels we set at the recent Tokyo summit.
Point three: To give us energy security, I am asking for the most massive peacetime commitment of funds and resources in our nation’s history to develop America’s own alternative sources of fuel -- from coal, from oil shale, from plant products for gasohol, from unconventional gas, from the sun.
I propose the creation of an energy security corporation to lead this effort to replace two and a half million barrels of imported oil per day by 1990. The corporation will issue up to five billion dollars in energy bonds, and I especially want them to be in small denominations so average Americans can invest directly in America’s energy security.
Just as a similar synthetic rubber corporation helped us win World War II, so will we mobilize American determination and ability to win the energy war. Moreover, I will soon submit legislation to Congress calling for the creation of this nation’s first solar bank which will help us achieve the crucial goal of twenty percent of our energy coming from solar power by the year 2000.
These efforts will cost money, a lot of money, and that is why Congress must enact the windfall profits tax without delay. It will be money well spent. Unlike the billions of dollars that we ship to foreign countries to pay for foreign oil, these funds will be paid by Americans, to Americans. These will go to fight, not to increase, inflation and unemployment.
Point four: I’m asking Congress to mandate, to require as a matter of law, that our nation’s utility companies cut their massive use of oil by fifty percent within the next decade and switch to other fuels, especially coal, our most abundant energy source.
Point five: To make absolutely certain that nothing stands in the way of achieving these goals, I will urge Congress to create an energy mobilization board which, like the War Production Board in World War II, will have the responsibility and authority to cut through the red tape, the delays, and the endless roadblocks to completing key energy projects.
We will protect our environment. But when this nation critically needs a refinery or a pipeline, we will build it.
Point six: I’m proposing a bold conservation program to involve every state, county, and city and every average American in our energy battle. This effort will permit you to build conservation into your homes and your lives at a cost you can afford.
I ask Congress to give me authority for mandatory conservation and for standby gasoline rationing. To further conserve energy, I’m proposing tonight an extra ten billion dollars over the next decade to strengthen our public transportation systems. And I’m asking you for your good and for your nation’s security to take no unnecessary trips, to use carpools or public transportation whenever you can, to park your car one extra day per week, to obey the speed limit, and to set your thermostats to save fuel. Every act of energy conservation like this is more than just common sense, I tell you it is an act of patriotism."
[ August 23, 2004, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Al ]
It must be those evil conservatives keeping those vehicles off the market
Hybrids have some measurable benefit in town driving, worse than USELESS otherwise.
Angry hybrid owners
A shift to hybrids could INCREASE oil usage! Hybrid technology, as it can be reasonably applied to the automotive industry (cost, reliability, form factor, real world mpg improvements), has NOT been around for "a long time". We can all go and buy a diesel (assuming you can live with a VW), but consumers never quite took to them here (they sell massively in Europe and elsewhere). Maybe things will change when the low sulphur fuels are on the market.
It's pointless to argue over ANWR and if it can deliver 3% or 1% or 7%. Whatever the number, and my numbers are from the US Department of the Interior, it's needed and serving no purpose where it is now. I know the oil would be most welcome in my house furnace in the upcoming winters. I expect the "hands off ANWR" mob will be whining about high oil prices this winter, blaming Bush and Cheney. How stupid is that.
Government "energy policy" could help in some areas (e.g. make nuclear power a priority as in France, put a massive tax on JFKerry's fleet of SUV's and private jets). Higher CAFE will kill more people, it basic physics and not a conspiracy.
Anyway, this is a lot more interesting than what a junior officer did or did not do for 4 months in Vietnam 35+ years ago. Or was it Cambodia?
Exploiting ANWR will not lower the price you pay for fuel one cent.
I don't think anybody is arguing that the ANWR extra oil supply will turn the world or domestic market upside down, but it will have some positive impact.
ANWR oil would have little impact
Approx. 50 cents per barrel reduction [source: eia.doe.gov and apparently the same data is used by MSNBC] is better than nothing, but more importantly helps to tip the balance back to domestic production and away from foreign. A few percent here and there is VERY important. Just try to get an "insignificant" few percent OFF your taxes and duck quickly.
We should get all we can domestically, conserve oil where it make sense (nuclear power) and stick it to the Middle East as best we can. We can do more than one thing at once.
I wish hybrids were going to be the savior, but they need more energy to produce, more costly to purchase, less reliable, and are LESS efficient on the highway. Fuel cells are interesting, but we have no hydrogen infrastructure and won't until the cost of that is less than the cost of continuing to use oil. Higher CAFE standards will kill more people, unless the car companies find a way around the laws of physics. [drunk drivers kill way more than higher CAFE ever would, but that's another topic altogether].
"Conserve more" sounds good, but realistically it won't happen voluntarily until oil prices go much higher than they are today. That will stimulate both oil conservation and the development of alternatives. Government interference usually creates more problems than it solves, but bring it on and make some concrete proposals. You won't see any tears here if we buy less oil from our friends in Saudi Arabia.
Well I would like to see Anwar held in reserve when we truly start developing alternate sources. But knowing us we will gobble up Anwar and look around for more and..there is no more..and we make no progress in alternative fuels/energy. Sadly I can predict what will happenm
The fact that we actually use 43% of the worlds gasoline is insane.
The fact that we actually use 43% of the worlds gasoline is insane.
Bump.
Crude over $60 a barrel in less than a year.
Crude over $60 a barrel in less than a year.
I just finished reading "Twilight in the Desert" by Matthew Simmons. Very detailed book.
He makes the point that due to the way the Saudi wells have been managed for the last 30 years, when they do peak the decline will be substantially steeper than the American wells.
During his research he stumbled across Congressional testimony of 1979 that stated the Saudi output would peak by the turn of the century.
The author is an optimist but it is a disturbing book.
Try it.
He makes the point that due to the way the Saudi wells have been managed for the last 30 years, when they do peak the decline will be substantially steeper than the American wells.
During his research he stumbled across Congressional testimony of 1979 that stated the Saudi output would peak by the turn of the century.
The author is an optimist but it is a disturbing book.
Try it.
T Boone Pickens says we're just about at peak oil. He was on Niel Cavuto's show a few weeks ago and stated that the world pumps about 93 or so million barrels a day and the world consumes about 93 million barrels a day. I think the squeeze is coming...
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