One step away from the Stone Age

Was just thinking about propane for those without fireplaces. The propane exchange places would be sold out fast. The propane filling place near me needs electricity to run it’s filling pump and the guy does not have a generator hooked in.
DynaGlo makes a nice LP heater …
We have had two of their NG/ceramic units about 10 years … great heaters.
I’m gonna let the dust and prices settle and consider adding that to my arsenal …
 
Nothing new for someone living in the Northeast... you live here long enough you'll have a generator as you've lost power for hours to weeks at a time due to snow/ice/hurricane. Who doesn't have more than a few days worth of food in there house?

Water would be the biggest issue for those not on a well or issue with public water supply. Heat is mostly oil and gas, usually non-issues. If you have a generator and enough fuel... your ahead of the game.

Most people don't prepare for events that are once in a lifetime... for example Sandy for those of us in the NE. How many people were prepared for the flooding and aftermath?
Heat is an issue on Long Island, most everyone has hot water oil or gas heat for any home built before 1980 and that is almost everyone, most homes built in the 1940s and 1950s before 1960, No electricity, no heat = freezing pipes.
 
If you live in the country where it gets cold and you have neighbors with wood stoves and fireplaces that don't keep them stoked I don't care how new your house is you get smoked out. Even makes your eyes burn. My poor mother was on oxygen 24/7 and that smoke would find its way into the house and it was horrible.
After dealing with this for decades
I would not do either and I have a fireplace and a wood stove in my shop from the 70s. But propane OS so cheap why bother.
 
My son could not find wood for the fireplace because he waited too long … they were on rolling blackouts …
I said no wood at all? (knew he burned some outside) …
“Well, still have my decoration wood“ (rack by fireplace) LoL
Told him I had plenty oak - burn it - and will bring ”both” kinds 😷
I’m getting near the end of supply from the two ponderosa pines I took down last year. I’ll need to pick a up a cord and also re-establish the “ decoration “ wood pile by the door of my walk out.
 
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table top butane gas cooker is $25, gas canisters $1 each. any big asian market carries them.
 

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You're ignoring the obvious. I have no choice to my electricity provider. I have no idea how they were chosen decades ago but who keeps them in line? It's in their best interest as a for profit company to fix problems when they happen and what is their incentive to pay overtime to accomplish this faster. It's in my best interest for them to harden the grid so that power doesn't go out due to a storm. How do we reconcile those two opposing goals? Public utilities need government regulation or the local monopolies need to end. I don't recall anyone giving options of lower utility bills with higher risk of catastrophe vs higher bills with lower risk of catastrophe. And who decides the acceptable profit margin for public utilities?
How much do you want to pay to over engineer things?
You just had a 50 or 100 year storm that could not be predicted, so now you will be over engineered for the next one in 50 to 100 years. I mean, who is to blame for that?
SO now you will pay and be hardened for storms that never happened before.
Next question,
While they are at it, do you want to pay for and have the system hardened for a 7.0 earth quake that never happened before too?
Do you want all the gas lines ripped up and earth quaked proofed?
Do you want every bridge in Texas torn down and rebuilt for a earth quake that may never happen?

Profit margins are nothing compared to the costs you speak of in protecting you from a unpredictable natural disaster.
To blame public servants and fault them for events that never happened before is true Snowflake/Sugar Daddy thinking. It sounds to me you are crying because you failed to take upon yourself preparing for a natural disaster. Ever hear of a whole house generator?

and guess what? ... the public until it happens, does not want to pay for needless things that never happened before and no one can deny that is the truth.
 
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Major contributor to Smog in the Denver area. The ban dates back to the 1980s, I believe. Even if you had one, I am not certain that you can use it.


A lot of wood stove restrictions were put into place following the 70’s Malaise where people burned wood to stay warm and avoid high energy prices. The resulting pollution prompted those restrictions plus pushed the industry to come up with cleaner burning stoves.

Our area hasn’t banned them yet but as soon as it gets cold the inversion layer in the atmosphere builds and traps the smoke thus prompting temporary burn bans unless the stove is your only source of heat.

Still, I relish the smell of a wood fire as I walk in the early mornings. Nothing like it.
 
table top butane gas cooker is $25, gas canisters $1 each. any big asian market carries them.

I can still get a two burner propane camp stove for under $30 here at Wally’s. They use the squat canisters. Very handy for emergencies and the occasional outdoor cookout when you want a burner for something.
 
Lots of lessons to be learned there sadly. For starters IMO wind turbines and solar panels need some tweaking. Especially if the plan is to go all EV.
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simply not true


But solar and wind energy make up just a fraction of Texas' energy supply, particularly in the winter.
"We have a fossil fuel-dominated grid," said Michael Webber, an energy resources professor at the University of Texas at Austin. He said it is "disingenuous to blame the grid's struggles" on renewable energy, which makes up a relatively small share of the state's energy supply.

"It's really a bigger failure of the natural gas system," Webber said. "That's the part that really struggled to keep up."
 
simply not true


But solar and wind energy make up just a fraction of Texas' energy supply, particularly in the winter.
"We have a fossil fuel-dominated grid," said Michael Webber, an energy resources professor at the University of Texas at Austin. He said it is "disingenuous to blame the grid's struggles" on renewable energy, which makes up a relatively small share of the state's energy supply.

"It's really a bigger failure of the natural gas system," Webber said. "That's the part that really struggled to keep up."
I read that too, and won't debate it. All I'm saying is I still believe wind and solar have a long way to go before they're ready for prime time. My neighbor's solar paneled roof is still covered in snow, she said getting solar electric was a big mistake. The sales pitch never mentioned covering the panels in snow would be a problem, they conviently glanced over that I guess in her case, and she never asked. She's happy to be hooked up to the electric grid.
 
Heat is an issue on Long Island, most everyone has hot water oil or gas heat for any home built before 1980 and that is almost everyone, most homes built in the 1940s and 1950s before 1960, No electricity, no heat = freezing pipes.

Sure, that's the same here in CT... but many people deal with that by running a generator. Like I said, you live here long enough either you have one or your one of those driving around the state looking for one during an outage.
 
I see a lotta posts blaming unpreparedness...
Is that the individual or the company the individual pays for the product?

Asking for a friend in the Great State of Texas.
 
I read that too, and won't debate it. All I'm saying is I still believe wind and solar have a long way to go before they're ready for prime time. My neighbor's solar paneled roof is still covered in snow, she said getting solar electric was a big mistake. The sales pitch never mentioned covering the panels in snow would be a problem, they conviently glanced over that I guess in her case, and she never asked. She's happy to be hooked up to the electric grid.
Agreed. Solar and wind are part of the solution, not the entire solution. By the way, I love my solar panels.
Blaming them for the Texas crisis is laughable.
 
I find it interesting that when I watched the very first interview with the Texas LG … what he said almost mirrored what O/K has eloquently posted … in fact he said they hoped to get 12% from wind and acknowledged that all systems had multiple issues …
Even some nuclear went off for a while …
Most of us know good and well why CNN is coming to the rescue without knowing jack
 
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Agreed. Solar and wind are part of the solution, not the entire solution. By the way, I love my solar panels.
Blaming them for the Texas crisis is laughable.
Yours don‘t count in this case Jeff … they are laughable in ice storms
 
simply not true


But solar and wind energy make up just a fraction of Texas' energy supply, particularly in the winter.
"We have a fossil fuel-dominated grid," said Michael Webber, an energy resources professor at the University of Texas at Austin. He said it is "disingenuous to blame the grid's struggles" on renewable energy, which makes up a relatively small share of the state's energy supply.

"It's really a bigger failure of the natural gas system," Webber said. "That's the part that really struggled to keep up."

While they aren't directly to blame, note the emphasis in that first line: "particularly in the winter", this is because solar output is lower in the winter as are wind patterns.

Also, describing wind (solar truly is a very small segment) of the Texas electricity supply as "just a fraction" is misleading. In terms of installed capacity, Texas has north of 28,000MW of wind, making it the 2nd largest source in the state. And before I get called a liar on that again (happened in another thread), here's a PDF from ERCOT that shows installed capacity for various sources:

While that sheet references exclusively installed capacity (~25,000MW), there is significant wind that's been grid connected but not yet recognized as installed capacity. It IS however factored into the charts ERCOT produces for supply, capacity factor...etc. This bumps overall capacity to north of 28,000MW, or roughly 28%. That's reflected in this chart:
www.ercot.com/content/wcm/lists/197386/Capacity_Changes_by_Fuel_Type_Charts_September_2020.xlsx

However, the blame still falls on the inability for gas gen to do its job to step-in for absent wind capacity as well as primary capacity, but I don't think it fair to ignore that wind's contribution to the event wasn't significant simply because it wasn't expected to show up at anywhere near nameplate in the first place.

This report covers why that is the case:
www.ercot.com/content/wcm/lists/197378/SARA-FinalWinter2020-2021.xlsx

ERCOT only plans on, during the winter demand peak, there being 963MW of wind and solar capacity.
If you go to the 2nd tab, the top table shows average CF for the three different wind areas, which gives a total average anticipated capacity of 6,142MW

This report explains why:

ERCOT said:
The peak demand forecasts for winter 2020-21 and spring 2021 were developed using Moody’s economic data obtained in April 2020. The winter SARA includes a 57,699 MW winter peak demand forecast, which is based on normal weather conditions during peak periods, from 2004 through 2018. ERCOT’s all-time winter peak demand record was set on Jan. 17, 2018, when demand reached 65,915 MW between 7 and 8 a.m.


Nearly 83,000 MW of resource capacity is expected to be available for the winter peak, including 963 MW of planned winter-rated resource capacity consisting of wind and utility-scale solar projects.

It is typical for cold snaps and heat waves to be accompanied by periods of low wind. This is perfectly normal, which is why planned available wind capacity is so low. But it does highlight an issue with expecting meaningful contribution from wind during high demand periods. The bottom line is that Utilities don't. They plan on using other capacity.

That presents a serious issue if the plan is deep decarbonization with a further reliance on electricity as we push for electrification.
 
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