Older RAV4

[supton]

in stickshift?

I still like the center lock idea on the RAV4's, over the CRV's (I understand the newest CRV's have a newer system--but out of my price range). Subaru has the best AWD systems, and I have not ruled them out: but they seem to be high geared in 1st gear, at least for stickshift. So, for the heck of it, what is wrong with the older RAV4's? Best I can tell, the big issue is power, the 1AZ-FE is 2.0L and 148hp/142ft-lb, which ran 2001 through 2003; the 2AZ-FE is 2.4L, 157hp/162ft-lb (but has a taller FD) and is '04-'08. 2009 and newer is the 2AR-FE and is auto-only. All are timing chain motors, so one less maintance item; and since I am planning on 5k/year, I shouldn't wear that chain out.

I'm looking to be cheap without finding out how expensive "cheap" can be. If I remove towing duties from the table then most any AWD setup should work for my needs. I've been wanting the 4Runner, but the 3rd gens in my price range are going to be sketchy. [Yeah, everything in my price range is going to be sketchy, I know.]

 

[supton]

Shoot--it's a bit tough to follow, but it appears I was wrong on the center diff lock. It appears that the automatics always had a locking center diff, then and today; early stickshift had the same button for center lock, while 2001 and and later did not. 2004 brought the 2.4L 2AR-FE, and it appears 5 speed manual was still available: but I'm not sure on the center diff lock on that model.

 

[BrianWC]

When we went shopping for them in 2002, when both the RAV4 and CR-V 2nd gens were getting underway, the biggest issue we had was size. The RAV4 was just so much tinier inside than the CR-V. I've never really had an issue w/ the AWD in the V. You just have to change the fluid in it at about half the recommended interval. The poor attitude of the nearest Subaru dealer and my wife's desire to avoid looking like one of the Indigo Girls kept us from looking too closely at the Subaru Forester.

But yeah, no center lock on the V. The Pilots had that, though, IIRC. Also didn't the Ford Escape?

 

[supton]

Not sure on other models. I'm only coming around now to looking at these, as originally I wanted more but am now changing my purchase criteria.

 

[BrianWC]

Well, I don't drive in much snow. But I know the cr-v's system seems like it kicks in okay on muddy/wet roads. There is a small delay. It's almost like traction control kicking in. I, too, initially wanted more when I bought our cr-v. I was hoping to buy either a crew cab Frontier 4wd or Xterra at the time. But the fact that I was going to be commuting 2 hrs a day nixed that.

None of the cute ute/cross overs from that era are going to feel super quick. I think the V stick shift was decent off the line but in relative terms, of course. I still see a surprising number of Saturn Vues from that era on the road. I remember Consumer Reports dinging them way back then, though for having a slow to respond awd system...

 

[supton]

Yeah, I don't want a slow responding system. The whole point is maximum snow traction. I don't need mpg's actually. Unless if I sell off my VW (the turbo install is done, but now it's throwing an O2 sensor code) I plan to just drive that at my typical 25kmile/year rate. Any other vehicle for me is going to be like 5k/year, as a backup vehicle for when (ahem) the VW is in the shop. The VW does good with snow tires, but it does lack at times, and I want something to fill that gap in. Preferably with 4 doors.

But a "real" 4WD vehicle (the 4Runner which I really want) is not going to be in my price range (around 5k), and I want that legendary Toyota reliability. Whether that reliability is in a Toyota or not, I don't care. I'm not really interested in repairs. The 4Runners of this vintage have issues with radiators (easily fixed, yes) and rear wheel bearings (not so cheap).

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: BrianWC
But yeah, no center lock on the V. The Pilots had that, though, IIRC.


Technically, the Pilots have a rear lock. But there is no center differential, so it's effectively a "center" lock. The VTM-4 system allows you to lock the rear unit to the propeller shaft, which is driven by the 1:1 transfer unit mounted on the transmission. So if you have the VTM-4 system locked, you really have 3-wheel drive (one front wheel and two rear wheels), which is going to be enough for what most will see, outside of true mud-bogging and rock-crawling.

Even in the CR-V, its snow traction is very good. Its system works very much like a Haldex unit in a Volvo. It engages on-demand and works pretty well for what most people with small SUVs will do. If towing is an option, a CR-V should be out anyway, regardless of what the AWD system will or will not do. It's a good vehicle in many respects, but it's no tow mule.

Have you looked at Jeep Cherokees? A Jeep Cherokee with an Aisin automatic and 4.0L straight six sounds like it's right up your alley. It won't get good economy, but that's kind of mutually exclusive with the rest of your wants list.

 

[supton]

Yeah, I should look at Jeeps. My wants/needs have shifted around quite a bit; originally I wrote them off, as I didn't want to deal with the issues that were sure to pop up on heavy usage (camping trips far from home etc). But now with light usage they might work for me.