Oils for V8 SBC and Fords

[427Z06]

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So, Mr. Software engineer from Austin. Written any programs to calculate the bearing clearances necessary to optimally support what vicosity at which temperature under a given load in the context of the current J300 standard lately?

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Yes, I've written such a program.

But what is really entertaining is how you framed the question. It clearly demonstrates you don't have a clue. You and Francis should get together and be clueless together.

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I'm wondering exactly what practical experience (anecdotal, worthless or otherwise) you actually have to sustain this diatribe you've gotten yourself into?

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Keep wondering, since it's clear now that anything I would tell you is so far above your level of comprehension, I'd be wasting my time.

Now little boy, move along now. Your immature bahavior is starting to get annoying.

 

[Shannow]

I grew up using nothing but 20W-50s, and then 20W-50s with STP to beef up the oil a bit.

As to what OEMs specified, I'll refer back to the Holden Manuals that I have.

Gregory's manuals
V-8 Holden (HK, HT, HG, 1968 to 1970) (253 Holden, through 350 chev)
below 0F...SAE 5W, SAE 5W-10, SAE 5W-20;
below 32F...SAE 10W, SAE 10W-30, SAE 10W-20
0C...SAE 20, SAE 20W, SAE 10W-20, SAE 10W-30.
above 90F...SAE 30, SAE 10W-30.

Reputedly, Bathurst was won with a 10W using Bardahl additive if you beleive the guy who won it in a late 60s Monaro.

All my manuals post 1970, and pre 1980 for Holden L6 and V-8 specify "Castrol GTX" which at the time was a 20W-50. Mum and Dad's Renault 16 (1975) also specified "Castrol GTX".

My Genuine Holden manual for the "Impreoved Performance L6 and V-8 engines (i.e. the blue series of the early 80s) has the following page.

If I had one of my V-8s today, I'd still be a something W-40 guy. Wouldn't run 30s, but the 40s are OK IMHO.

BTW guys, a LOT of Oz cars made 300-400,000km on 20W-50, and it's hard for use to go thin. On the other hand, a LOT of U.S. vehicles went way past 200,000 miles on 10W-30, and it's hard for them to think thick...lets just get along, and stop with abusive "reasoning".

 

[acewiza]

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Now it looks like you're rebelling like a 4 yr-old once you figured out how obsurd your statement was. People will have a riot reading this thread tomorrow.

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I'm having a riot already!

Care to tell us how many V8s you've owned and operated over the years yet? Dare I ask raced?

Judging by your handle maybe you have a vette? Ever do anything besides change the oil in it?

Just wondering...

 

[427Z06]

Thanks for the post Shannow. That manual doesn't look much different from 1960s Chevy manuals. Unfortunately, some people can't distinguish between street engines designed and manufactured in this era from current ones, and then further confuse the situation by mixing in race engines built to specific classes/rules.

Not to mention that the oils today are significantly different in composition and quality comapred to the oils of that era.

 

[acewiza]

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Yes, I've written such a program.

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Care to share that, or maybe just a small sample of the output so that we may all be as enlightened?

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Now little boy, move along now. Your immature bahavior is starting to get annoying.

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Good. Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[427Z06]

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...BTW guys, a LOT of Oz cars made 300-400,000km on 20W-50, and it's hard for use to go thin. On the other hand, a LOT of U.S. vehicles went way past 200,000 miles on 10W-30...

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To be more accurate, many millions of U.S. vehicles went way past 200,000 miles on 5W-30 that quickly sheared to a 5w20.

 

[Rickey]

427 wrote "To be more accurate, many millions of U.S. vehicles went way past 200,000 miles on 5W-30 that quickly sheared to a 5W20." Source? Did each and every one shear to 20w? Really? Hmmmmm. 427 Baiting: The mere suggestion that any engine anywhere may have lived a longer more troublefree life due to any or all of the following. 1.The use of a "thick" oil. "Thick" in this instance is loosely defined as any oil having a number or numbers greater than "20" in its weight specification. 2.The use of "excessive" amounts of ZDDP."Excessive" in this instance is loosely defined as any amount that would cause tree huggers to immediately hug their CAT in fear for it's life. I've built,raced, and even destroyed a few small block Chevy's in my time. This doesn't make me an expert,I recognise that. And the more I "know" the more I realize I don't "know". I also know this: theory,textbook,and lab are great, for a starting point. And real field experience can't be ignored or "engineered" away. Some folks do experience greater failures with "thin" oils, some don't. Some folks experience greater duriability at the expence of a few HP with "thick" oils some don't. Sometimes it's a simple matter of finishing third or not at all. Maybe the winner was running a 0w2 oil. Maybe today's winner won't finish next time. Machining operations aren't always perfect even with CNC. Maybe we can all agree that "thicker" covers up for imperfection. Rickey

 

[427Z06]

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427 wrote "To be more accurate, many millions of U.S. vehicles went way past 200,000 miles on 5W-30 that quickly sheared to a 5W20." Source? Did each and every one shear to 20w? Really? Hmmmmm.

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I once randomly selected 30 UOAs of dino 5w30s from the UOA section here and posted the viscosities. IIRC, ~85% showed they sheared back to a 5w20. Do a search to see for yourself. The rest of the statistics can be found on the internet, number of cars produced, average lifetime, etc, etc.

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427 Baiting: The mere suggestion that any engine anywhere may have lived a longer more troublefree life due to any or all of the following. 1.The use of a "thick" oil. "Thick" in this instance is loosely defined as any oil having a number or numbers greater than "20" in its weight specification. 2.The use of "excessive" amounts of ZDDP."Excessive" in this instance is loosely defined as any amount that would cause tree huggers to immediately hug their CAT in fear for it's life.

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Find posts by me to support your position.

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I've built,raced, and even destroyed a few small block Chevy's in my time. This doesn't make me an expert,I recognise that. And the more I "know" the more I realize I don't "know". I also know this: theory,textbook,and lab are great, for a starting point. And real field experience can't be ignored or "engineered" away. Some folks do experience greater failures with "thin" oils, some don't. Some folks experience greater duriability at the expence of a few HP with "thick" oils some don't. Sometimes it's a simple matter of finishing third or not at all. Maybe the winner was running a 0w2 oil. Maybe today's winner won't finish next time. Machining operations aren't always perfect even with CNC. Maybe we can all agree that "thicker" covers up for imperfection. Rickey

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This is somewhat similar to what I've been saying all along, if one cared to read any of my numerous posts. If one considers the details of a particular engine design, the qualities imparted when it's manufactured and how it will be used, one will optimize by varying viscosities and basestocks/additives to get the best results. Modern stock engines driven on the street, will have far different requirements than a highly modified race only engine built to rules and/or on a budget.

 

[Gary Allan]

TO the "Road Warrior man" what do you want me to say! Ask any, and I mean ANY oil company here in Aus and they will tell you the highest selling product is a 20w 50 right now. Right up until the mid to late 90's Ford and GM Holden manuals listed 20w 50's in all the 6's and 8's they made. I did not write the book, I can only pass on what it say's,


I think 10w-40 was our most purchased outlet oil (as opposed to oil offered at facilities) until a few years ago.

It is very interesting at how two differnt nations, driving similar engines, use radically different weights ..and both manage just fine. Naturally you've got a climate more forgiving then ours for heavier oils.

No offense meant on the Road Warrior reference ..but there are side effects that come along with being from the big country.



Here there is virtually no sustained enviroment that would justify or warrant the use of 20w-50 for so many vehicles. 5w-20 is spec'd for every place from Texas (which probably most closely resembles your climate) to the Canadian border(s). It would be unimaginable to think that you could have a population that can't manage to keep the engine together with the same oils that we use. Hence my reference to "taking RW too seriously". Only people who routinely operate vehicles like Mad Max 24/7 have a need for such oils.

..but, hey, if it works ... millions of Aussies can't be all that wrong. OTOH, tens of millions in the US can't be either ...hence the reference to the alteration of universal constants due to hemispheric orientation.

 

[Slow]

You guys need to stop bickering! I was very interested in this thread as I just built a slightly hopped up ford 77 I6. Haven't fired it up yet and I'm still trying to figure out what oil to put in it.

So, keep up the good discussion!

 

[427Z06]

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You guys need to stop bickering! I was very interested in this thread as I just built a slightly hopped up ford 77 I6. Haven't fired it up yet and I'm still trying to figure out what oil to put in it.

So, keep up the good discussion!

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Give us the details of the build...or better yet, start your own thread with the details. Include components, clearances, use/application and any other pertinent information. I'm no Ford I6 expert, but there is bound to be one here.

 

[Geoff]

What's the Holden oil recommendation for the Commodore's these days with the 5.7 or 6.0 liter engine? We get them here as the Pontiac GTO. The Pontiac is imported from Australia.

 

[Shannow]

10W-30 Mobil 1 I believe

 

[Francis]

Glad to see that someone else is also find 427Z06 hard to deal with.

I thought others in this forum would of had the balls to stand up and give him a mouth full, weight or not you liked 20w 50's but purely on his mannerisms and pure arrogance. But then I thought well his got 5000 odd post to his name, so maybe everyone else has stoped bothering 4999 ago.

Again to clearly out line: In my first post, I used full stops . and paragraphs.

It was not one big sentence about how V8 supercars are the same as an 86 Chev. I used a bunch of examples that related to information on the weight I was referring to, 20w 50. Actually tell me how did I relate the two as the same? Show me where?

I used that Camero as an example, so the 350 may not of come out until 87, but gee, I don't think the crank and bore would of made a massive difference to justify a grade of oil from the two engines.

You keep saying that I'm not listing any worth wild fact or information but you have NOT once listed any your self! Show me where it says NOT to use a 20w 50? Show me where or why I should use a 5w 30 in an 1980's style SBC? Actually stop talking ________ and twisting peoples words and show us all YOUR data. your facts!

I don't believe Marketing to be 100% correct, but I do not also believe it to be 100% wrong. But I have the ability to sifter through what may of be printed by an advertising exec as lies. If everything thing you reed is true and all these listed Lab tests are right then you must love Silk 50! Gee they made a strong case about how good that stuff was in all their documentations, but the real world show it a little different.

I DO know for fact that in 1999 the Ford motor company released a service bulletin stating the recommend grade of oil for the current (at the time AU) Falcon has been upgraded to a 10w 40. An engineer at Ford told me that they were noticing premature engine ware from the Taxi's using the 5w 30, and this stoped once they went to the heavier 10w 40. I also in writing have this comment from Castrol (the factory supplier to Ford making reference to the same issue.)

Oh yeah you also mentioned you have a problem with people who draw the wrong conclusions from such personalized advice, and then try to spew their faulty conclusions onto others.

Well AGAIN I have only passed on what I have spoken with the various companies I have many times listed have told me. I don't know how you could make such a comment? I have ask various questions and just like in my first post used various examples, and the general view back from THESE companies were that they prefer typically to run 20w 50's as a bench mark for V8 engines. What else do you want me to say, It's clear, clean cut text here.

Here use any 1970's to any early 90's SBC or 5L Ford powered car. Ask them what oil they recommend and you tell me what they say. IF my info is and I have drawn the wrong conclusions. Ask them your self and you let me know what they say. Then if you want to battel it out with them as to why they have listed a 20w 50 then do so and let me know what they got it so wrong. I'm sure they must be all wrong!

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/castrolhomepage.do?
categoryId=3000
www.valvoline.com.au
www.penrite.com.au
http://www.caltex.com.au/
www.pennzoil.com.au

 

[Francis]

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What's the Holden oil recommendation for the Commodore's these days with the 5.7 or 6.0 liter engine? We get them here as the Pontiac GTO. The Pontiac is imported from Australia.

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I'm going to get a mouth full from someone special here!

Yes it's Mobil 1 10w 30. BUT to add all the problems they have had here in Aus with the Bore on these blocks glazing many dealers are "off the record" telling guy's to run anything else other then 10w 30 Mobil 1.

NO I don't have fact or Data, but I do have a friend that bought a $60,000 what you know as a GTO, and the engine started using oil, then blowing smoke, (one of the many - Holden had a massive problem on their hands) and when they fitted a new engine they told him, "I know the book say's to use Mobil 1, but DON'T, use a good mineral oil or anything else, but don't use Mobil 1"

NOW to cover myself from pages of explaining this. This is only what the manager of the dealer told him. This is where it ends, I don't have no data or fact sheets, only the few 100's that had the same issue and that all got told the same sort of story.

 

[Francis]

I just checked the factory hand book for a 1999 1.6L and 1.8L Mazda

Recommend oil.

Use oil the meets or exceeds SG

15w 40 for colder climates
20w 50 for warmer.

This is a Factory book for a little 4cyl and it's saying to use a 20w 50!!!!!!!

 

[Francis]

Hey while your send emails to those companies ask them about the Mazda, I did and they all said the same thing as the book!

So if a 4cyl Mazda with tinny clearances can use a 20w 50 then why wouldn't a big old V8 be able to?

Oh hang on maybe Mazda's engines are POS straight fro the factory. Yeah those Japs were never known for good engineering hey!

 

[Francis]

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You guys need to stop bickering! I was very interested in this thread as I just built a slightly hopped up ford 77 I6. Haven't fired it up yet and I'm still trying to figure out what oil to put in it.

So, keep up the good discussion!

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Yes we do need to, and it was a nice conversation until someone started twisting and turning other peoples words.

I don't really know why it (or I might say someone) took that path, it was just general talk and info, then it got all to nitty gritty.

If I was to use a 5w 30 in a 19 71 GTHO 351 Ford Falcon or 71 350 Holden Monaro I believe it would use a oil and I don't think you would find any owners with original low kms models using something that thin.

 

[427Z06]

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Glad to see that someone else is also find 427Z06 hard to deal with.


Blah, blah, blah...Big Snip

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http://www.castrol.com/castrol/castrolhomepage.do?
categoryId=3000
www.valvoline.com.au
www.penrite.com.au
http://www.caltex.com.au/
www.pennzoil.com.au

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These are all Aussie websites. Look up the recommendations on US websites. And then have people post what is says in their U.S. owner's manual over the past 20 years.

Given the above, does this mean all our cars/trucks are wearing out or blowing up a lot sooner than cars/trucks in Australia?

Funny...I live in one of the hottest places in the US and I see hundreds of cars/trucks on the road everyday that have used nothing more than what's recommended here in the U.S. and these cars/trucks are 10, 15, 20 years old, and doing just fine. I guess Jiffy Lube and all the Dealers are secretly putting 20w50 in everything.

 

[427Z06]

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You keep saying that I'm not listing any worth wild fact or information but you have NOT once listed any your self! Show me where it says NOT to use a 20w 50? Show me where or why I should use a 5w 30 in an 1980's style SBC? Actually stop talking ________ and twisting peoples words and show us all YOUR data. your facts!

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I have in the past many times. Do a search. I refuse to waste my time reposting a bunch of information just because some yahoo from down under has a wacky theory.

Here, I'll even make it easy for you. Just go to the UOA section and look at how many cars/trucks are being destroyed because they're not using 20w50.