Oils for V8 SBC and Fords

Status
Not open for further replies.
Francis
If I recollect this was the original question

Now I don't know, so it's not a case of we right and your wrong, at all, but I am really trying hard to find how both ends of the scale can be right?

In the UK 20W50 is still alive

http://www.millersoils.net/pdf_downloads/Motorsport_engine_oils.pdf

http://www.silkoleneoil.com/raceprod.htm

Other side of coin there are excellent UOAs with "thin" oils and AEHAAS thesis.

In addition ZDDP issue (flat tappet) and Zinc free oil with Fuchs Titan GT1 which is a 5W30 in UK rather than 0W20. Also low sulphur fuels and detergents effect on ZDDP re using Diesel oil.

trying hard to find how both ends of the scale can be right?
 
427Z06, I am in the process of moveing I just came across one of my GM performance parts books. I do not know if it is the instruction book or the part number book. I will look and see wich one it is. These are the pink books that ship with the crate engines. One of the guys I used to work with years ago has every single book ever put out by GM performance parts or endorsed by them for the past 20 years. I will see if I can get in touch with him and look at his books. Seeing how I was downsized 2 years ago I no longer have my books. I just burnt about 80lbs of GM material today in my back yard. I also burnt about 20-30lbs of SAE papers today. Seeing how I am no longer working for them I could not see moveing all of my old stuff.

427Z06 I never knew you wanted me to explain this in detail. I do not revist most posts once I put my $.02 in unless I am one of the first to post or it is very interesting. If several heavy hitters have already put their their $.02 in then I do not come back what is the point. You should have sent me a PM. You have sent me PM's before on various subject matters but never this one.
 
Quote:


427Z06 I never knew you wanted me to explain this in detail. I do not revist most posts once I put my $.02 in unless I am one of the first to post or it is very interesting. If several heavy hitters have already put their their $.02 in then I do not come back what is the point. You should have sent me a PM. You have sent me PM's before on various subject matters but never this one.


No biggie JB, but I have PM'd you in the past to revisit threads where such claims have been made.
 
Mate honestly I really don't give a "POS" (to use your faze) about your comments and your twisting and thrashing from of text in relation to what I have said.

I have ALWAYS asked the question not given the answer.

I have ALWAYS only listed what I was told, NOT listed it to be fact.

I NEVER said one size fits' all, look at my first post I used a Car as an example.

I don't know how I could of taken what you said wrong as you were while confusing, contradictive, difficult and narrow minded, very direct!

You have taken it to far. I created this post as a general conversation about what I have been told and shared it with all.

You might not have the ability to see merit in personalised advice given from people that might have to by law and litigation say things like "this is general advice only" but I prefer to. In a world of Marketing and Legality, if someone takes the time to write me an email in direct response to a question and that answer is not what you want to hear then I can't help that. I only shared what I had to found.

Oh by the way if your right then how about you start hitting us with all these FACTS, Show me where your right? Show me Legal binding statements from GM that suggest to use light oils. I have not seen one bit of paper the is telling me I should run light weight full Syn oils from GM in regards to there Crate engines.

TO the "Road Warrior man" what do you want me to say! Ask any, and I mean ANY oil company here in Aus and they will tell you the highest selling product is a 20w 50 right now. Right up until the mid to late 90's Ford and GM Holden manuals listed 20w 50's in all the 6's and 8's they made. I did not write the book, I can only pass on what it say's,

Hang on maybe I better get a legal disclaimer from both companies before I post this or 427Z06 will tell me this must be a "POS".
 
Just a little personal anecdote here. Of course I could be just outright lying, or possibly have some hidden adgenda to support, but....

I put very close to 100,000 miles on a Chrysler 440 with nothing but GTX 20w50 (and G0d forbid!) STP Oil Treatment for topup between changes) over a 24 year period, starting in 1984. During that time it saw winter starts at -20F on numerous occasions. It ran as good as the day I bought it when I shut it off before yanking it to junk the chassis. I'm debating whether or not I will even open it up to inspect before using it in another car someday.

Go figure.
dunno.gif
 
Quote:


I put very close to 100,000 miles on a Chrysler 440 with nothing but GTX 20w50 (and G0d forbid!) STP Oil Treatment for topup between changes) over a 24 year period, starting in 1984. During that time it saw winter starts at -20F on numerous occasions. It ran as good as the day I bought it when I shut it off before yanking it to junk the chassis. I'm debating whether or not I will even open it up to inspect before using it in another car someday.

Go figure.
dunno.gif





Let's see...24 years, starting in 1984, would make that 2008. Wow, that car must be fast, you went back in time.
laugh.gif


Seriously, when was the 440 built? Was it a factory build or an aftermarket rebuild? If you truly started that engine with 20w50 mineral oil at -20°F consider yourself lucky you didn't ruin some bearings. In fact, I wonder how bad of shape they're in now.

For those who want to test the bull factor, most home freezers will go down to 0°F at the coldest setting. Get a thermometer, and beaker full of 20w50 and place it in the 0°F freezer overnight. Then try pouring it back into the bottle the next day.
 
Well, I bought the car in 1984, so that makes 22 years. Where's that edit button?
dunno.gif
The cold start info well, believe what you want, but nevertheless. Last one was in Cheyenne WY in Jan, 2003. Went out at 1AM the last night I was there to see if it would start and warm it up because I was planning driving home the next day. Cranked slow, but fired and ran fine. There is nothing wrong with the bearings, because like I said it was running fine before I shut off for the last time a couple years later, after many more trouble-free miles.

So, you calling me a liar?
box.gif
 
Quote:


Mate honestly I really don't give a "POS" (to use your faze) about your comments and your twisting and thrashing from of text in relation to what I have said.

I have ALWAYS asked the question not given the answer.

I have ALWAYS only listed what I was told, NOT listed it to be fact.

I NEVER said one size fits' all, look at my first post I used a Car as an example.

I don't know how I could of taken what you said wrong as you were while confusing, contradictive, difficult and narrow minded, very direct!

You have taken it to far. I created this post as a general conversation about what I have been told and shared it with all.




Blah, blah, blah. In your first post you talk about oil for your 'V8 Supercars' race engines and then try to relate that to a stock '86 350 Chev Camero'. First, those are two entirely different engine builds for two entirely different applications. If you can't see the difference, I can't help you. Second, 1986 was the last year for flat tappet cams in most GM V8s. Most factory SBCs have been built with roller lifters for 20 years now. Third, they never sold 1986 Camaros with 350s in them, at least in the US.

Quote:


You might not have the ability to see merit in personalised advice given from people that might have to by law and litigation say things like "this is general advice only" but I prefer to. In a world of Marketing and Legality, if someone takes the time to write me an email in direct response to a question and that answer is not what you want to hear then I can't help that. I only shared what I had to found.




I have no problem with personal advice from knowledgeable people. I do have a problem with people who draw the wrong conclusions from such personalized advice, and then try to spew their faulty conclusions onto others.

Quote:


Oh by the way if your right then how about you start hitting us with all these FACTS, Show me where your right? Show me Legal binding statements from GM that suggest to use light oils. I have not seen one bit of paper the is telling me I should run light weight full Syn oils from GM in regards to there Crate engines.




The FACTS are mixed among some 5,000+ posts. Start searching, no one is going to spoon feed you here.

Quote:


TO the "Road Warrior man" what do you want me to say! Ask any, and I mean ANY oil company here in Aus and they will tell you the highest selling product is a 20w 50 right now. Right up until the mid to late 90's Ford and GM Holden manuals listed 20w 50's in all the 6's and 8's they made. I did not write the book, I can only pass on what it say's




So when you reference marketing material, it's 100% believable FACT. But if someone else makes a reference to marketing material, it's 100% bull?
 
Quote:


For those who want to test the bull factor, most home freezers will go down to 0°F at the coldest setting. Get a thermometer, and beaker full of 20w50 and place it in the 0°F freezer overnight. Then try pouring it back into the bottle the next day.




So how do you know how long it was sitting between starts? Maybe it was four hours, six, eight? I really don't remember, but probably about 6-8 hours since previously warm, not overnight.

The point is you are the one who makes the "A$$"umption here, in order to discredit someone, and make yourself look like the renowned all-knowing uber-tibologist.



crackmeup.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Quote:


Well, I bought the car in 1984, so that makes 22 years. Where's that edit button?
dunno.gif
The cold start info well, believe what you want, but nevertheless. Last one was in Cheyenne WY in Jan, 2003. Went out at 1AM the last night I was there to see if it would start and warm it up because I was planning driving home the next day. Cranked slow, but fired and ran fine. There is nothing wrong with the bearings, because like I said it was running fine before I shut off for the last time a couple years later, after many more trouble-free miles.

So, you calling me a liar?
box.gif





Nope. But what I will accuse you of is incomplete information. Without testing the oil for properties like viscosity and fuel dilution, etc, we're not sure what was in the sump.

The last 440 factory build was what, 1977? Engines manufactured from that era come no where close to the clearances/tolerances and surface finishes of engines built today. Even the better aftermarket rebuilds today are better than the factory builds from that era. Thus, 20w50 isn't such a stretch for that particular engine. Further, look up how the J300 standard has changed over the years.
 
Quote:


Quote:


For those who want to test the bull factor, most home freezers will go down to 0°F at the coldest setting. Get a thermometer, and beaker full of 20w50 and place it in the 0°F freezer overnight. Then try pouring it back into the bottle the next day.




So how do you know how long it was sitting between starts? Maybe it was four hours, six, eight? I really don't remember, but probably about 6-8 hours since previously warm, not overnight.

The point is you are the one who makes the "A$$"umption here, in order to discredit someone, and make yourself look like the renowned all-knowing uber-tibologist.

Get over yourself A-hole.






So you post some worthless anecdotal evidence as to the suitabilty of 20w50 in -20°F temperatures, and when someone calls you out, you resort to name calling as your defense. I'm sure Jeffrey Skilling would be impressed.

laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
 
Here we go with the assumptions again. I merely stated the facts as they are known to me. Draw your own conclusions. No suitability for purpose, ambient temperature or otherwise was ever claimed. 20w50 did great in that engine. Did I say anything else?

Call me out? Yeah, go for it all you want. I think you'd be better served to call your head out of your own behind.

crackmeup.gif
laugh.gif
crackmeup.gif
laugh.gif
crackmeup.gif
 
OBTW, it looks like you were the 1st to hurl an insult in this thread. I think that is what got me interested.

stirthepot.gif
 
Quote:


Without testing the oil for properties like viscosity and fuel dilution, etc, we're not sure what was in the sump.




I'm sure what was in the sump. I said it was GTX 20w50 and the car ran great. No fuel dilution. Want to propose any more assumptions to support your thesis that I have no idea what I am talking about?

nono.gif
 
So, Mr. Software engineer from Austin. Written any programs to calculate the bearing clearances necessary to optimally support what vicosity at which temperature under a given load in the context of the current J300 standard lately? I'm wondering exactly what practical experience (anecdotal, worthless or otherwise) you actually have to sustain this diatribe you've gotten yourself into?

Now who's calling who out?

shocked.gif
 
Quote:


Here we go with the assumptions again. I merely stated the facts as they are known to me. Draw your own conclusions. No suitability for purpose, ambient temperature or otherwise was ever claimed. 20w50 did great in that engine. Did I say anything else?




We'll quote you to find out:

Quote:


I put very close to 100,000 miles on a Chrysler 440 with nothing but GTX 20w50 (and G0d forbid!) STP Oil Treatment for topup between changes) over a 24 year period, starting in 1984. During that time it saw winter starts at -20F on numerous occasions.




You said you started it with GTX 20w50 and STP Oil Treatment in it at -20F on numerous occasions. I didn't accuse you of anything other than incomplete information. In fact, I challeged others to test this in their freezers at home.

Quote:


Call me out? Yeah, go for it all you want. I think you'd be better served to call your head out of your own behind.




Now it looks like you're rebelling like a 4 yr-old once you figured out how obsurd your statement was. People will have a riot reading this thread tomorrow.
 
Quote:


OBTW, it looks like you were the 1st to hurl an insult in this thread. I think that is what got me interested.




Wrong again, my pyzon. I insulted any modern engine that requires 20w50 mineral oil to live.
 
Quote:


Quote:


Without testing the oil for properties like viscosity and fuel dilution, etc, we're not sure what was in the sump.




I'm sure what was in the sump. I said it was GTX 20w50 and the car ran great. No fuel dilution. Want to propose any more assumptions to support your thesis that I have no idea what I am talking about?




One minute your absolutely sure of all your facts, next minute you vaguely remember them. Which is it?

And without sampling the oil at that point in time, you can't say with any certainty if there was any fuel dilution or not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top