Oiling up the ole chain before major rain

[VersysVsWhat]

Quite possibly, but also maybe not. Also, the metal only needed to be flat in a very small area-where the bolt went through and the O-rings went over.

You'd think that they would realize that deformation in that area could skew results (but maybe they don't care and only care about clicks?).

 

[KrisZ]

Quite possibly, but also maybe not. Also, the metal only needed to be flat in a very small area-where the bolt went through and the O-rings went over.

You'd think that they would realize that deformation in that area could skew results (but maybe they don't care and only care about clicks?).

Just think about it logically. What kind of oring seal would block wd40 and let kerosene pass right through when wd40 is like 90% kerosene?

There is no denying that a thinner fluid will get past a seal much easier than a thicker one, but it will never be this dramatic. Also, water is even thinner than the lubricants they tested, so how would the orings keep the water out?


Therefore the only logical conclusion, even ignoring the dented surface I posted earlier, is that some of the rigs they made, simply didn’t make a good seal.

 

[VersysVsWhat]

I've been seeing your logic since you've pointed it out. I just like to consider and weigh all sides for a bit before coming to a conclusion. That's just the way I'm wired. I think you're most likely correct in your conclusion.

 

[02SE]

That “test” is a joke. The “steel alloy plate” as the video calls it, is nothing but tin sheet metal or aluminum, you can see the waviness and dents in it. No wonder the orings leaked right away.
What’s even more funny is he says right before that they won’t do a “clown test”

A chain has thick and very flat steel link plates and they seal extremely well.




View attachment 284219

It doesn't surprise me to hear he's again reached specious conclusions. At least he makes money off of influencing, giving bad advice, and actually performing "clown tests" on Youtube.

It is truly sad that people listen to him.

 

[VersysVsWhat]

It doesn't surprise me to hear he's again reached specious conclusions. At least he makes money off of influencing, giving bad advice, and actually performing "clown tests" on Youtube.

It is truly sad that people listen to him.

For the record, I'm not a Fortnine/Ryan fan boy by any means-I'm not even subscribed to that channel. I stumbled onto that video when I was trying to research chain lubrication and cleaning.

Here's the thing, there is a severe paucity of any kind of testing out there, meanwhile, you have a million anecdotal opinions from everyone and their brother/sister, and it all seems to be conflicting. Tbh, the first time I watched that video, I wasn't paying super close attention to all the variables, like how the metal wasn't super flat (though I still think it only really needs to be flat in a very small area).

 

[KrisZ]

For the record, I'm not a Fortnine/Ryan fan boy by any means-I'm not even subscribed to that channel. I stumbled onto that video when I was trying to research chain lubrication and cleaning.

Here's the thing, there is a severe paucity of any kind of testing out there, meanwhile, you have a million anecdotal opinions from everyone and their brother/sister, and it all seems to be conflicting. Tbh, the first time I watched that video, I wasn't paying super close attention to all the variables, like how the metal wasn't super flat (though I still think it only really needs to be flat in a very small area).

That's how the internet is, you need to take the good and the bad and learn how to filter out the garbage.

No need to pay attention all the variables, and you won't be able to until you get some experience. The only reason I picked up in this rigged up "test" is because I have experience and I know how a sealing surface works.

But basic logic still prevails. If an o-ring cannot seal against kerosene, how in the work would it seal against water? So if your conclusion after watching the video is to sparingly use kerosene, then you should definitely never get that chain wet. But you never even considered water, have you?
I hope you see how the video manipulated your perception.

 

[VersysVsWhat]

Yeah, I get all that. Speaking completely hypothetically, say water could get past the seal: Grease/oil and water tend to repel each other (and aren't generally miscible unless very high pH, other emulsifiers, etc are involved), so I doubt water would interact much, if at all, with the grease, whereas a fellow hydrocarbon that is also a solvent would definitely interact with it and could thin it out.

Anyways, I think this subject has had the dead horse beat out of it at this point, so I'm going to bow out. I do appreciate your input and pointing out the way less than ideal state of the metal they used in the video.

Cheers

 

[Bonz]

Experience versus the internet... experience wins every time. A slightly damp rag with kerosene wiping a chain down gets 30k plus miles from an EK 530 ZVX3 chain.

I checked recently since this thread started, there are now 17,000 miles on the DID 530 ZVM X ring chain and I have not adjusted it since the first thousand miles. High-end chains are worth every penny to me, at 5,000 to 6,000 miles per riding season, that's 5 to 6 years and very little worry and rare adjustments after the first thousand miles or so. I am using the Honda Moly spray lube almost exclusively and Honda white graphite spray lube occasionally that have been previously mentioned in this thread.

 

[02SE]

I got about the same mileage out of chains on my stock CB750, FJ1200, ZX-11D, CBR1100XX, ZX-12R, and GSXR1000 back in the day. I was well on the way to that when my 1st gen Hayabusa was stock. Building the engine into a big-bore stroker put far more strain on the chains then they were ever rated for, so their lifespan became compromised. The big bore stroker Hayabusa has had the stock RK chain, EK 530 ZZZ, DID 530 ZVM X, and now an EK 530 Z3D. It's also very hard on tires. But it makes up for it's appetite for consumables, with big grins when on the throttle.

The Stock 3rd gen Hayabusa is doing fine on it's stock RK 530. The other sportbikes are close to stock power levels, and their chains are doing fine too. So I guess what we know is that chain maintenance can be accomplished with varying methods.

 

[Ranger83]

Saint Todd did a Project Farm comparison six years ago.



We carry the squeeze bottle of DuPont Chain Saver.

 

[thetricky]

I must say I really do like Fortnite’s videos, however, that o-ring test is just bad. Take an application like my Volvo penta outdrive on my boat run in saltwater. O-rings all over it keeping oil in and water out and they go years and years without fail running around the puget sound. A properly engineered o-ring seal, like on a chain between two flat plates with the proper squish applied, will let nothing through, save for something that actually dissolves the o-ring, which none of us seem to be using here.

As for cleaning the chain I am a bit of a fanatic. At least every 500 miles, kerosene in squirt bottle and one of those 3-sided chain brushes, wipe dry, apply the DuPont chain saver like someone else posted. Great stuff. Invisible, very little dirt collection.

I have to add that chain cleaners are exceptionally overpriced for what they are too.

 

[VersysVsWhat]

Curious, in your signature you mention HPL oils for your car, but Amsoil for your bike, why that over HPL?

 

[thetricky]

I'm actually 2200 miles into a fill of HPL motorcycle 10w-40. Working on getting everything switched to HPL, eventually! The Amsoil is awesome too, I have a UOA on here at 4k miles it was like it hadn't been touched.

 

[sw99]

Gear oil for all my bike chains. Never had any problems.

 

[Bonz]

thetricky, I realize this is a chain oil thread, however, since the subject has been broached, does HPL oil provide lower wear numbers from the analysis that has been done by those using it? What is the main benefit?

You say with Amsoil, it looks like "it hadn't been touched". I'm curious how that can be improved upon with HPL? Not being a contrarian however that's what you have said and that seems to show no room for additional benefit.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

A properly engineered o-ring seal, like on a chain between two flat plates with the proper squish applied, will let nothing through, save for something that actually dissolves the o-ring, which none of us seem to be using here.

True... because no amount of external oil (RED) can reach the critical pin and roller junction behind the X ring to extend its
service life... the 4 points of an X ring are as effective as the O ring on your dip stick separating external and internal fluids...

 

[thetricky]

thetricky, I realize this is a chain oil thread, however, since the subject has been broached, does HPL oil provide lower wear numbers from the analysis that has been done by those using it? What is the main benefit?

You say with Amsoil, it looks like "it hadn't been touched". I'm curious how that can be improved upon with HPL? Not being a contrarian however that's what you have said and that seems to show no room for additional benefit.

I honestly don't believe HPL will be any better/worse than Amsoil. I am simply switching my stable over to all HPL, eventually, so this is the next machine to get it. I tend to vote with my wallet so HPL will get my money from a customer service and quality product standpoint. They blend to a performance point, not a price point. I also take advantage of the longer OCI's HPL is capable of. I'm only 2200 miles into the HPL so I don't know how it is holding up yet.

What I meant with the Amsoil what that it held up really, really well for 4k miles of being beat on. The 250 ninja isn't a crazy motor, no high compression or crazy ignition timing, it does however, run high rpms. I'm 220lbs so I ask for every pony it has available, all time!

 

[Bonz]

Thanks for the reply. What performance point does HPL blend to that eclipses what Amsoil (or other oils) will do with respect to results of a used oil analysis?

 

[We're Metals]

Thanks for the reply. What performance point does HPL blend to that eclipses what Amsoil (or other oils) will do with respect to results of a used oil analysis?

 

[thetricky]

Thanks for the reply. What performance point does HPL blend to that eclipses what Amsoil (or other oils) will do with respect to results of a used oil analysis?

They are for extended changes and keeping the rings clean, both of which I am into. As far as wear on a UOA, not going to be a difference.