Oil temps and relation to HTHS?

[edyvw]

if aggressive marketing is the cause of your dislike against LM then you shouldn't buy shell gas,iphones,Cola e.t.c. they are not good arguments for someone like you.you accepted HPL or REDLINE that they are respectable even if they dont carry approvals but then LM who carries approvals ,and good specs on paper you still dont accept them as a big one.and for someone who tries many brands thats strange.
well your educated guess says dont try LM bcs of the aggressive marketing? thats not a very scientific reason for us who are learning things, you know that.a scientific guess is to tell us what are their differences and to talk about them as you say.i am all ears my friend.and if you convince me that this LM is worst compared to M1 i will spend my money to import ESP 5-30 regardless i can find LM 4200 new gen right out of my door the next day.

I talked enough about it into details. Don’t want to repeat myself.

 

[PoorMans180SX]

Some data I had posted on this topic previously. 2 posts start here:

Oil temps w/r to ambient temps - plotted for my VW Golf Sportwagen

The one on my 80s toyota is like this

bobistheoilguy.com

Very interesting. I have always heard that "thicker" oil can increase oil temps, and I suppose HTHS is a decent measure of that. I have a shop near me that claims they dropped 40 degrees of oil temp with a certain oil, but I'm pretty sure they went from a dino 20w50 to a synthetic 5w50, and that always explained the difference to me.
I might try a similar experiment on my RB25 powered S13 once I get the new wiring harness built for the additional sensors and whatnot. Supposedly oil temps are a problem on these engines but I never see anyone log them.

 

[svenson]

On paper a lot of things look same or similar. I guess you come to the point where you make educated guess.
I will always trust Mobil1, Shell, Castrol (though they are IMO least trustful of big ones) over LM. Listen, everyone is trying to make a buck. LM is doing what they think it is necessary to make money, which is over the top marketing. Approvals are there so you don;t think whether oil is suitable and good. But here, we like to talk those differences. Give me same performance on paper between M1 and LM, I will always go Mobil1, regardless the price.

I talked enough about it into details. Don’t want to repeat myself.

details based on trust? and if LM is proven as good as mobil you want accept it?
ok,lets talk seriously..you buy continental tyres,advertised with big signs saying MADE IN GERMANY, they are all over the world with aggresive advertising ,putting their huge label outside tyres shops and thats good for you,its enough for you, even they are not the best tyres,although they dont belong to the major's category aside michelin or goodyear , but..
you wont accept LM who is doing the same marketing even if they proove they are as good as mobil.

this is not very convincing as a scientific argument on bitog, this is like ,speaking of the devil, an emotional argument ,more like ''i trust thicker oil protects engines better at a higher ambient temperature '' bcs, i feel it,i know it,what ever you tell me you wont persuade me .

 

[edyvw]

details based on trust? and if LM is proven as good as mobil you want accept it?
ok,lets talk seriously..you buy continental tyres,advertised with big signs saying MADE IN GERMANY, they are all over the world with aggresive advertising ,putting their huge label outside tyres shops and thats good for you,its enough for you, even they are not the best tyres,although they dont belong to the major's category aside michelin or goodyear , but..
you wont accept LM who is doing the same marketing even if they proove they are as good as mobil.

this is not very convincing as a scientific argument on bitog, this is like ,speaking of the devil, an emotional argument ,more like ''i trust thicker oil protects engines better at a higher ambient temperature '' bcs, i feel it,i know it,what ever you tell me you wont persuade me .

No, I do not buy Continental bcs. they are Made in Germany. Continental I have (one set) are made in USA.
No, LM is not good as Mobil1. LM uses a lot of products made by Mobil1 to create its own products.
I worked on oil testing and we were testing LM. It is OK oil, it is NOT Mobil1.
I talked about it a lot. Not worth time repeating myself.

 

[svenson]

LM uses a lot of products made by Mobil1 to create its own products.

so do other blenders as well, motul since its foundation and fuchs but they are considered great companies.not a good argument.and when you tested oil for LM was years ago,now LM is sponsor for F1 unless that means something for a car enousiast.
but i rest my case, each to his own.

 

[BrendanC]

details based on trust? and if LM is proven as good as mobil you want accept it?
ok,lets talk seriously..you buy continental tyres,advertised with big signs saying MADE IN GERMANY, they are all over the world with aggresive advertising ,putting their huge label outside tyres shops and thats good for you,its enough for you, even they are not the best tyres,although they dont belong to the major's category aside michelin or goodyear , but..
you wont accept LM who is doing the same marketing even if they proove they are as good as mobil.

this is not very convincing as a scientific argument on bitog, this is like ,speaking of the devil, an emotional argument ,more like ''i trust thicker oil protects engines better at a higher ambient temperature '' bcs, i feel it,i know it,what ever you tell me you wont persuade me .

say you LOVE LM products and move on. being so blind on brand loyalty is not a great thing, especially around here when there are definitely better products out there proven by data.

 

[RDY4WAR]

It makes sense that a higher HTHS (at the same bearing clearance) could mean a little more hydrodynamic friction thus higher oil temp from that friction. The difference would be minor.

 

[TiGeo]

say you LOVE LM products and move on. being so blind on brand loyalty is not a great thing, especially around here when there are definitely better products out there proven by data.

Please point me to the data showing LM is worse than another product with the same approvals.

 

[BrendanC]

Please point me to the data showing LM is worse than another product with the same approvals.

haven’t you posted UOA’s to support HPL doesn’t shear as bad in service.

 

[TiGeo]

haven’t you posted UOA’s to support HPL doesn’t shear as bad in service.

Yes but I ask about oils with the same approvals, HPL has no approvals. Comparing LM to any other oils I've done there is zero difference that I can discern just based on UOA (which realy doesn't tell you the whole story) or any other measureble performance metric. Yes, I believe HPL is a higher-performing oil than anything LM offers.

 

[BrendanC]

Yes but I ask about oils with the same approvals, HPL has no approvals. Comparing LM to any other oils I've done there is zero difference that I can discern just based on UOA (which realy doesn't tell you the whole story) or any other measureble performance metric. Yes, I believe HPL is a higher-performing oil than anything LM offers.

i never once stated anything about approvals as i don’t care about approvals. there are better products out there: IE HPL. that’s all i was getting at.

 

[wpod]

Summer time ?

 

[edyvw]

so do other blenders as well, motul since its foundation and fuchs but they are considered great companies.not a good argument.and when you tested oil for LM was years ago,now LM is sponsor for F1 unless that means something for a car enousiast.
but i rest my case, each to his own.

What case? Do you actually know what that means?

 

[userfriendly]

It makes sense that a higher HTHS (at the same bearing clearance) could mean a little more hydrodynamic friction thus higher oil temp from that friction. The difference would be minor.

Exactly, and I believe that’s the reason Dexos R is a 5w50 with expensive viscosity modifiers. That grade should produce less heat and parasitic horsepower loss than a VII free product that will have a higher hths for a given KV100C.
If races are won or lost by five horsepower, 5w50 vs 15w50 might make the difference.

A famous race car driver said that if you’re not first, you’re last.

 

[RDY4WAR]

This is also the basis for Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 and 0W-50. There's some certain VMs out there that make good power.

 

[TiGeo]

i never once stated anything about approvals as i don’t care about approvals. there are better products out there: IE HPL. that’s all i was getting at.

Generally in this argument errrr discussion folks are comparing LM to other commonly available OTS oils so they will have the same approvals is all I was getting at. Yes, I believe the HPL products are better than LM but I still use LM in several of our vehicles. The main issue with LM is cost (to me) - if you could buy LM at Walmart for ~$25/5 qts this woudln't be an issue but it's significantly more bought at normal retail pricing and with the same approvals as comparible products at the Wallyworld, hard to justify it. The issue with LM is mainly a marketing one that folks take up with it - go on the Euro/VW forums and people will swear it's a superior product to M1 etc. based on the way it's heavily marketed in those communities.

 

[svenson]

say you LOVE LM products and move on. being so blind on brand loyalty is not a great thing, especially around here when there are definitely better products out there proven by data.

did you ever saw my signature back when i posted all the oils i used at the past? do you see my signature now? there wasnt-isnt a single LM product.i have never used one,it didnt happened and not bcs. edyvw say its not a good oil.i am not a fan of any oil brand but i am not a hater also.and if you ever tried to read any of my posts just recently i said that in a few months i will try HPL.try to understand that i am not defending LM ,LM doesnt need any support from any of us,its doing more than fine with their profits.

the reason why i insist is why a respectable member of bitog gives me no scientific reason, a reasonable argument for the menace against a very reputable company all over the world.
isnt it why we are here? to speak about oils,consistenscy, tests,etc.? when i entered here i learned some things, some rules, as thin as possible,approvals,analogy between KV and pour point,hths is all that matters and so on.LM is one of the companies that stepped up and tries to follow these rules.
if the member who speaks about all these every now and then in this forum cant accept these rules for sentimental,personal reasons for the whole LM company,not just one of their oils,then how true is all the knowledge we are all sharing? is this that you are defending?
i proofed to you ,i am not a fan boy..you dont like fanboys,do you like haters? we have a hater here.

What case? Do you actually know what that means?

here we go again,the language argument ,every time you get in the corner and you know what that means.
you are one of the experts here in bitog and i respect your knowledge.
but so far for the LM menace you have against ,the only arguments you said :

I trust Mobil1 to use better stocks, polymers, etc., than LM.

but then you say :

LM uses a lot of products made by Mobil1 to create its own products.

so if LM uses mobil's stocks and as you said previously mobil use the best ones then LM use the best stocks out there. and if the approvals are more than good then LM is as good as mobil,according to your words.so why its still worst as a product? please try to enlighten us

but then you said:

But here, we like to talk those differences.

i am still expecting to tell me these differences ,not emotional ones ,scientific based on paper not educated guess.
by the way what is educated guess means in that case? from my education here on bitog ,its analogy between KV and pour point-hths,noack.isnt it the way that you guessed that M1 esp 5-30 is not that good on paper than the old visom one? isnt that education guess that tells you that xcess gen 2 is an excellent oil? then why the same educated guess doesn't stand for that oil from LM? but i forget its LM ,that and only that makes it hatable. bcs educated guess has nothing to do with that.the whole thing its personal for you and LM.and has to do with other reasons not education ,not scientific, at least thats what my guess is,since i get no reason based on science.i dont like to get fooled or mislead by anyone thats the case here.

when someone ,and that someone is an experienced member says :

Give me same performance on paper between M1 and LM, I will always go Mobil1, regardless the price.

then how can any member take you seriously again? if an expert wants to be called an expert and wants to be reputable cant say these words, he shouldn't be prejudiced

Generally in this argument errrr discussion folks are comparing LM to other commonly available OTS oils so they will have the same approvals is all I was getting at. Yes, I believe the HPL products are better than LM but I still use LM in several of our vehicles. The main issue with LM is cost (to me) - if you could buy LM at Walmart for ~$25/5 qts this woudln't be an issue but it's significantly more bought at normal retail pricing and with the same approvals as comparible products at the Wallyworld, hard to justify it. The issue with LM is mainly a marketing one that folks take up with it - go on the Euro/VW forums and people will swear it's a superior product to M1 etc. based on the way it's heavily marketed in those communities.then i am sorry but i cant respect that from an expert like you,then

not just vw ,bmw forums too ,from US and Europe

 

[edyvw]

did you ever saw my signature back when i posted all the oils i used at the past? do you see my signature now? there wasnt-isnt a single LM product.i have never used one,it didnt happened and not bcs. edyvw say its not a good oil.i am not a fan of any oil brand but i am not a hater also.and if you ever tried to read any of my posts just recently i said that in a few months i will try HPL.try to understand that i am not defending LM ,LM doesnt need any support from any of us,its doing more than fine with their profits.

the reason why i insist is why a respectable member of bitog gives me no scientific reason, a reasonable argument for the menace against a very reputable company all over the world.
isnt it why we are here? to speak about oils,consistenscy, tests,etc.? when i entered here i learned some things, some rules, as thin as possible,approvals,analogy between KV and pour point,hths is all that matters and so on.LM is one of the companies that stepped up and tries to follow these rules.
if the member who speaks about all these every now and then in this forum cant accept these rules for sentimental,personal reasons for the whole LM company,not just one of their oils,then how true is all the knowledge we are all sharing? is this that you are defending?
i proofed to you ,i am not a fan boy..you dont like fanboys,do you like haters? we have a hater here.

here we go again,the language argument ,every time you get in the corner and you know what that means.
you are one of the experts here in bitog and i respect your knowledge.
but so far for the LM menace you have against ,the only arguments you said :

but then you say :

so if LM uses mobil's stocks and as you said previously mobil use the best ones then LM use the best stocks out there. and if the approvals are more than good then LM is as good as mobil,according to your words.so why its still worst as a product? please try to enlighten us

but then you said:

i am still expecting to tell me these differences ,not emotional ones ,scientific based on paper not educated guess.
by the way what is educated guess means in that case? from my education here on bitog ,its analogy between KV and pour point-hths,noack.isnt it the way that you guessed that M1 esp 5-30 is not that good on paper than the old visom one? isnt that education guess that tells you that xcess gen 2 is an excellent oil? then why the same educated guess doesn't stand for that oil from LM? but i forget its LM ,that and only that makes it hatable. bcs educated guess has nothing to do with that.the whole thing its personal for you and LM.and has to do with other reasons not education ,not scientific, at least thats what my guess is,since i get no reason based on science.i dont like to get fooled or mislead by anyone thats the case here.

when someone ,and that someone is an experienced member says :

then how can any member take you seriously again? if an expert wants to be called an expert and wants to be reputable cant say these words, he shouldn't be prejudiced

not just vw ,bmw forums too ,from US and Europe

Yes we talkED differences about it. You can search for it.

 

[svenson]

stop chasing your tail..i quoted all your " so called" differences, in fact i quoted all your posts but you didn't mention one difference. misleading once more.avoiding to admit that there isnt any scientific reason.maybe you can help the bitog members where to search, unless there isnt one which is probably the truth.

 

[PoorMans180SX]

Make another thread if you want to continue this debate svenson. People are biased, it's how humans work. Not sure why it's such a big deal to you. Let's keep this thread to oil temps and HTHS.