Oil Temp in Stop and Go Traffic

edyvw said:
212 is the boiling point. It removes moisture, fuel etc., much faster from oil, especially in stop-and-go traffic when oil sometimes does not reach operating temperature.
The cooling system should be designed in such a way as to deal with load without problems. Oil temperature in 230-240 under load is absolutely not a problem and a cooling system should be designed to keep it there.
If the intent is to keep the temperature that low bcs. load, the question is why it is a problem to design a cooling system that keeps oil temperature in check under load. Others do it.
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Water starts to evaporate above 32F, there is absolutely no need to bring the oil to the boiling point of water to start the evaporation process. Besides, the water is emulsified in the oil, it will not start boiling as if it were in a kettle.
Also, we're talking bulk oil temps here, meaning the mains, the rings, the oil squirters etc. will see a lot higher oil temps locally, which may lead to varnish, caking etc.

The issue could also be where the actual temp sensor is located on different engines, hence the big difference in oil temp readings.
 
If the oil regularly gets to 180F on somewhat of a regular basis, moisture will not be an issue. Oil does not have to be above the boiling point of water, (212 F), to effectively remove moisture.

Most of the engines that form "mayonnaise" on the inside of the oil filler caps, are driven short trips in cold Winter weather. The oil is lucky to reach 140 or 150 in many of those short, cold weather driving scenarios. So then yes, moisture will accumulate.
 
KrisZ said:
Water starts to evaporate above 32F, there is absolutely no need to bring the oil to the boiling point of water to start the evaporation process. Besides, the water is emulsified in the oil, it will not start boiling as if it were in a kettle.
Also, we're talking bulk oil temps here, meaning the mains, the rings, the oil squirters etc. will see a lot higher oil temps locally, which may lead to varnish, caking etc.

The issue could also be where the actual temp sensor is located on different engines.
Click to expand...
You beat me to it by a few seconds.
 
KrisZ said:
Water starts to evaporate above 32F, there is absolutely no need to bring the oil to the boiling point of water to start the evaporation process. Besides, the water is emulsified in the oil, it will not start boiling as if it were in a kettle.
Also, we're talking bulk oil temps here, meaning the mains, the rings, the oil squirters etc. will see a lot higher oil temps locally, which may lead to varnish, caking etc.

The issue could also be where the actual temp sensor is located on different engines.
Click to expand...
Of course oil temperature at rings is higher. We all know that. But whatever, others do not have an issue with varnish etc. and yet, oil temperature is higher.
Every time I see oil temperatures that low by design, it is a band-aid for engineering issues.
 
billt460 said:
If the oil regularly gets to 180F on somewhat of a regular basis, moisture will not be an issue. Oil does not have to be above the boiling point of water, (212 F), to effectively remove moisture.

Most of the engines that form "mayonnaise" on the inside of the oil filler caps, are driven short trips in cold Winter weather. The oil is lucky to reach 140 or 150 in many of those short, cold weather driving scenarios. So then yes, moisture will accumulate.
Click to expand...
Of course it does not have to be above 212f to evaporate, though it will take longer.
However, higher oil temperature drastically improves mpg. It is in the interest of the manufacturer to run oil higher as they are bending backward to be CAFE compliant. This is the easiest trick to bump mpg.
 
KrisZ said:
What would those engineering issues be that a difference of 10-20F would solve?
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For the same reason, BMW lowered oil thermostat by 20f in V8 engines to cool off some parts due to hot V design.
Idk, it is Chrysler, different day, different bingo option.
 
My VW GLI tends to try to get the oil temp to 220F and stay there in all ambient temperatures.
 
not every engine has a dedicated oil cooler and not all engines with an oil cooler have an oil cooler thermostat.
engine oil temp when engine is thoroughly warmed up is at least equal to the coolant system temperature as well as generally being a bit higher..
 
edyvw said:
Of course it does not have to be above 212f to evaporate, though it will take longer.
However, higher oil temperature drastically improves mpg. It is in the interest of the manufacturer to run oil higher as they are bending backward to be CAFE compliant. This is the easiest trick to bump mpg.
Click to expand...
How much is, "drastically"?
 
edyvw said:
In a same way 0W16 improves over 0W20.
Companies will do literally anything to bump mpg, and bumping oil temperature is one of the oldest tricks.
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Same reason heat exchangers for the oil have become so popular, not only do they keep oil temp under control, but they also bring the oil up to temperature much more quickly.
 
OVERKILL said:
Same reason heat exchangers for the oil have become so popular, not only do they keep oil temp under control, but they also bring the oil up to temperature much more quickly.
Click to expand...
Yep! Really not hard to do it. And wouldn’t be surprised if Pentastar has it. But, the question then is why so low when heat exchangers become popular precisely bcs. mpg bump.
 
edyvw said:
In a same way 0W16 improves over 0W20.
Companies will do literally anything to bump mpg, and bumping oil temperature is one of the oldest tricks.
Click to expand...
My Toyota was delivered with 0W-16, and I have no difference in mileage with the 0W-30 or 0W-20 that I have been running in it.

If there is a difference it's all but unmeasurable. Yeah, over a few hundred thousand vehicles they can measure some improvement. But for a single car and driver, it doesn't amount to squat.

Next Summer I'm going to 0W-40. And I doubt I'll see any measurable drop off from that either.
 
billt460 said:
My Toyota was delivered with 0W-16, and I have no difference in mileage with the 0W-30 or 0W-20 that I have been running in it.

If there is a difference it's all but unmeasurable. Yeah, over a few hundred thousand vehicles they can measure some improvement. But for a single car and driver, it doesn't amount to squat.

Next Summer I'm going to 0W-40. And I doubt I'll see any measurable drop off from that either.
Click to expand...
You don’t see. However, it matters big time in conditions where mpg is measured and CAFE determined.
I used 0W40 in my Toyota too. But that is not the point.
 
Nothing I’d bat an eye at. Think of police cars, etc. They are run hard, fast, and long. Lots of idle time, sitting on pavement for hours on end with the AC cranked and they (Ford, Dodge, Chevy) still can last 200K plus without fail. But I do really like the fact you have that on your Ram. Wish my Ranger had that!
 
billt460 said:
If there is any difference, all I'm saying is it’s far from "drastic".
Click to expand...
For the individual it doesn’t matter and isn’t measurable, but for CAFE even a 0.01 gain adds up when you’re cranking out hundreds of thousands of vehicles. But CAFE is ridiculous with their ratings and credits, the 2015 F-150, with the 2.7 ecoboost and RWD almost met the prior 2025 CAFE requirement of “54.5mpg” despite being EPA rated at 22 combined.
 
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