Oil Related Failures? Anyone Know of Any?
- Thread starter Nickdfresh
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While I don't doubt that there was a problem, had there been a bad batch, more than one engine would have had problems.
Far as I know, there has never been a bad batch from AMSOIL in its history.
Far as I know, there has never been a bad batch from AMSOIL in its history.
You may be right and this just goes to show that not every oil works in a given situation and it certainly wasnt the engines fault considering he raced the car 2 days a week every weekend for 7 years before he retired from racing and never once had to open the engine for anything other than valve adjustments. He was track champion 2 years in a row at capital raceway in crofton MD in class 2. Maybe he didnt use the correct amsoil? All we know is that it foamed up and caused erratic oil pressure.
Are you sure he didn't overfill his crankcase? It seems like the foaming would be caused by the oil coming in contact with the cam lobes, causing it to foam up (aka problems)
If everyone used what was in the owners manual wouldnt this be a boring site?
I've had several oil related failures. Granted it was under other than easy conditions and all in two stroke engines.
I own and operate a small specialty fuel and lubricant company that caters strictly to the radio control hobbies; airplanes, cars, boats etc... Needless to say, I do a lot of bench running of engines when I come up with a new idea and need to proof it or need a side by side comparison performance test of my lubes against my competitors lubes. I have become very well versed in what I call "post mortum analysis" of an engine to determine exact cause of failure.
The greatest number of two stroke gasoline engine failures I've seen are with two very well known and popular two stroke lubes, one synthetic and the other conventional.
When everything is blended according to the engine manufacturers instruction all is usually well, when blending fuels with oils that state they can be blended much leaner, well thats where the problems arise.
Keep in mind that we are not talking about constant speed weed eater engines, what we use are extremely expensive highly refined model airplane engines some of which are over 150cc and multi cylinder. As soon as a prop load, and inconsistnet cooling are introduced as variables, oil quantity and quality take on a whole new dimension.
I own and operate a small specialty fuel and lubricant company that caters strictly to the radio control hobbies; airplanes, cars, boats etc... Needless to say, I do a lot of bench running of engines when I come up with a new idea and need to proof it or need a side by side comparison performance test of my lubes against my competitors lubes. I have become very well versed in what I call "post mortum analysis" of an engine to determine exact cause of failure.
The greatest number of two stroke gasoline engine failures I've seen are with two very well known and popular two stroke lubes, one synthetic and the other conventional.
When everything is blended according to the engine manufacturers instruction all is usually well, when blending fuels with oils that state they can be blended much leaner, well thats where the problems arise.
Keep in mind that we are not talking about constant speed weed eater engines, what we use are extremely expensive highly refined model airplane engines some of which are over 150cc and multi cylinder. As soon as a prop load, and inconsistnet cooling are introduced as variables, oil quantity and quality take on a whole new dimension.
http://www.rochestercorvetteclub.org...?TID=12&PID=27
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(Reprinted from "For Vettes Only", the monthly newsletter of the National Corvette Owners Association, by permission of the editor.)
Snake Oil?
For over a year, oil companies have been marketing American Petroluem Institute (API) approved motor oils blended with greatly reduced levels of zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) and other anti-wear additives like manganese and phosphate. This change in formulation was made because such anti-wear additives reduce the effectiveness of catalytic converters used on 1973 and newer cars and eventually damage them. ZDDP is also an air pollutant.
The first oils affected by new regulations calling for the additive levels to be reduced were those bearing the API’s Service Symbol and Certification Mark "SM". These are oils made for the latest generation of automobile engines. However, they are being marketed as if they were safe for ALL car engines. Now, there is much debate over whether this is true.
It has been discovered that the new SM oils provide less boundry lubrication and tend to increase sliding and high-pressure (EP) friction in the engines of older cars. This has led to such problems as the total failure of a new camshaft and a new set of valve lifters in a vintage sports car after just 900 miles of use. The engines most susceptible to such damage seem to be primarily those of the “flat tappet” type made in the 1960s and earlier.
When the parts involved in one failure were returned to the supplier, he went through the trouble of verifying that a molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly lubricant had been used when the sports car’s valve train was re-assembled and that proper break-in procedures had been followed.
After checking with Delta Camshaft, the parts supplier learned that such failures have been more frequent since the API approved the use of the new oil formulations last year. Another company -- Crane Cams – is even recommending the use of an oil additive during break-in. Comp Cam’s Technical Bulletin no. 225 recommends using both an assembly lube and an oil additive.
Engine rebuilders believe that the reduced levels of zinc, manganese and phosphate are causing very early destruction of camshafts and cam followers. The American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA) issued Technical Bulletin No. TB2333 specifically to address this growing problem. Clevite, a major supplier of engine bearings, also says that it is aware of the problem.
Some automakers insist the first oil change is the only time additives are needed. However, those who service and repair older cars remain skeptical. Many recommend using new API CJ-4 diesel-rated oils -- such as Delo or Rotella – in older engines. These oils are generally available at auto stores and gas stations.
Redline Oil Co. says it is well aware of the older-engine problem and still uses the old levels of anti-wear additives in its products. Redline does not produce API-approved oils, so the company doesn’t have to comply to API guidelines. Redline is telling enthusiasts to use its street-formulated synthetic oil. Valvoline also offers an “Off-Road” 20W-50 oil that doesn’t comply to the new API formulations. Castrol, on the other hand, says that only its diesel-rated oils should be used in older cars.
Chevrolet is also aware of the problem. It recommends adding EOS oil fortifier at each oil change, which costs about $12 for an 8-ounce can. For cars that use “engine oil” in their gearboxes, General Motors sells an oil specifically formulated for Manual Gearboxes with Brass Synchronizers. Redline offers a similar product.
A lengthy article on this topic was written by Neil Maken and published in Skinned Knuckles magazine. It was reprinted in the Oct. 5, 2006 issue of Old Cars Weekly. To learn more about Maken’s article visit http://skinnedknuckles.net/pages/index.htm. **********
***************
(Reprinted from "For Vettes Only", the monthly newsletter of the National Corvette Owners Association, by permission of the editor.)
Snake Oil?
For over a year, oil companies have been marketing American Petroluem Institute (API) approved motor oils blended with greatly reduced levels of zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) and other anti-wear additives like manganese and phosphate. This change in formulation was made because such anti-wear additives reduce the effectiveness of catalytic converters used on 1973 and newer cars and eventually damage them. ZDDP is also an air pollutant.
The first oils affected by new regulations calling for the additive levels to be reduced were those bearing the API’s Service Symbol and Certification Mark "SM". These are oils made for the latest generation of automobile engines. However, they are being marketed as if they were safe for ALL car engines. Now, there is much debate over whether this is true.
It has been discovered that the new SM oils provide less boundry lubrication and tend to increase sliding and high-pressure (EP) friction in the engines of older cars. This has led to such problems as the total failure of a new camshaft and a new set of valve lifters in a vintage sports car after just 900 miles of use. The engines most susceptible to such damage seem to be primarily those of the “flat tappet” type made in the 1960s and earlier.
When the parts involved in one failure were returned to the supplier, he went through the trouble of verifying that a molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly lubricant had been used when the sports car’s valve train was re-assembled and that proper break-in procedures had been followed.
After checking with Delta Camshaft, the parts supplier learned that such failures have been more frequent since the API approved the use of the new oil formulations last year. Another company -- Crane Cams – is even recommending the use of an oil additive during break-in. Comp Cam’s Technical Bulletin no. 225 recommends using both an assembly lube and an oil additive.
Engine rebuilders believe that the reduced levels of zinc, manganese and phosphate are causing very early destruction of camshafts and cam followers. The American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA) issued Technical Bulletin No. TB2333 specifically to address this growing problem. Clevite, a major supplier of engine bearings, also says that it is aware of the problem.
Some automakers insist the first oil change is the only time additives are needed. However, those who service and repair older cars remain skeptical. Many recommend using new API CJ-4 diesel-rated oils -- such as Delo or Rotella – in older engines. These oils are generally available at auto stores and gas stations.
Redline Oil Co. says it is well aware of the older-engine problem and still uses the old levels of anti-wear additives in its products. Redline does not produce API-approved oils, so the company doesn’t have to comply to API guidelines. Redline is telling enthusiasts to use its street-formulated synthetic oil. Valvoline also offers an “Off-Road” 20W-50 oil that doesn’t comply to the new API formulations. Castrol, on the other hand, says that only its diesel-rated oils should be used in older cars.
Chevrolet is also aware of the problem. It recommends adding EOS oil fortifier at each oil change, which costs about $12 for an 8-ounce can. For cars that use “engine oil” in their gearboxes, General Motors sells an oil specifically formulated for Manual Gearboxes with Brass Synchronizers. Redline offers a similar product.
A lengthy article on this topic was written by Neil Maken and published in Skinned Knuckles magazine. It was reprinted in the Oct. 5, 2006 issue of Old Cars Weekly. To learn more about Maken’s article visit http://skinnedknuckles.net/pages/index.htm. **********
Sludge, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge
And when I put an "additive" to thicken oil to reduce oil consumption in my first car, 1957 Dodge Corrnet. It did reduce comsumption but clogged the oil system and red pressure light went on. That was the end for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge
And when I put an "additive" to thicken oil to reduce oil consumption in my first car, 1957 Dodge Corrnet. It did reduce comsumption but clogged the oil system and red pressure light went on. That was the end for it.
My brother-in-law worked for the company that insured Quaker State at the time, and they ended up paying for thousands of new engines when that happened. He said that it was just a bad batch.
Well, many years ago I was working at a high-end car dealer, and one of the techs forgot to add oil back in during an oil change. It happened to be the car's first service - 600 miles at that time. He got a short ways down the road during the road test and the engine said, loudly, "I don't think so...".
After the car was towed back he removed the oil pump, broke the drive dog off its shaft, reinstalled it, and put some oil in the engine. Then a warranty claim was put in. The factory rep knew he was being taken, but he couldn't figure out how.
That's an "oil related failure", right?
After the car was towed back he removed the oil pump, broke the drive dog off its shaft, reinstalled it, and put some oil in the engine. Then a warranty claim was put in. The factory rep knew he was being taken, but he couldn't figure out how.
That's an "oil related failure", right?
Quote:
Oil doesn't kill engines. People do!
QFT
Maybe the thread should be "oil-caused failures...". Oil didn't cause a failure in an engine where it didn't meet the mfg's specs, the person who put the oil in did.
Yeah well, I was afraid of responses like this to be honest. That's an urban myth. One that's based on the supposed "paraffinic wax" content indicative of Pennsylvania crude. If it were at all once true, this would have long since stopped being a problem since neither oil has been forumlated from PA crude for at least a decade or more as the company is now based in Texas (or the Neatherlands - depending on how you look at it
Thanks, I didn't know this!
I think oil related engine failures are more melodrama than drama, and are really quite common.
The engine that dies of sludge (common) is caused by the wrong oil used for too long an interval.
The soft cam is caused by the wrong oil used for too long an interval. The cam lobes are worn through their hardening, and wear is rapid thereafter.
Oil related failures usually involve the passage of time. They are not typically rapid onset terminal events.
The engine that dies of sludge (common) is caused by the wrong oil used for too long an interval.
The soft cam is caused by the wrong oil used for too long an interval. The cam lobes are worn through their hardening, and wear is rapid thereafter.
Oil related failures usually involve the passage of time. They are not typically rapid onset terminal events.
My 1978 ElCamino had ticky lifters, so I decided to change them. Found the valley full of sludge. Back then I didn't know much about it, so I scraped it out... not knowing what was lurking in the pan!
I never ran any additives, but just did 2K OCI's with Castrol dino. The car lived for years and ran pretty good! It had the 200ci V6 so it was gutless, but ran smoothly. Goes to show, even with a sludge problem, an engine can survive!
I never ran any additives, but just did 2K OCI's with Castrol dino. The car lived for years and ran pretty good! It had the 200ci V6 so it was gutless, but ran smoothly. Goes to show, even with a sludge problem, an engine can survive!
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