Oil Pump Flow

needtoknow · Jan 29, 2004

I am trying to finally settle on an oil filter that I can feel comfortable with. Always used a Fram, usually PH8A (twice as big as spec'd)until I found this site. Right now I was trying to look at flow. I tried to find the GPM oil pump rating for my vehicles as a start.I've done a search on this site and can't find the info. I have also looked in my factory manuals as well, no luck. Pressure seems to be the mfr's only concern. Maybe someone here can give me some info?
1985 Toyota Cressida, 3.0Ltr Inline 6
1992 Mitsubishi Montero, 3.0Ltr V6
2003 Ford Ranger P/U 3.0Ltr V6
I know it's going to be RPM specific so I guess about 2000 would do as that seems to be the start-up RPM and in cold weather the amount of flow the filter would see.

TC · Jan 29, 2004

To help complicate things, flow is also pressure related. If a hypothetical pump pushes a certain quantity of oil at 35 psi, it will flow more if pressure is bumped up to 45 psi, for example.

Unfortunately you might never find the pump specs you're looking for, but this shouldn't really be an issue. In essence, we want a filter to really "do something" when it comes to particle capture, but "do nothing" (mimic an open pipe) when it comes to reducing flow. An easy way to get closer to "do nothing" (zero restriction is an impossibility since ALL media will create some level of flow resistance) is to simply get the largest amount of media we can find.

Rather than going into calculations of flow rates, etc (although it does make for a fun exercize), I'd suggest simply finding a filter brand and filter media you like (see the Mercruiser thread for filtration rates), and then find the largest oversize filter with the proper thread and gasket pattern you can find, and leave it at that. For street cars you're pretty much guaranteed adequate flow if you find an appropriate oversize filter. Instead of using the "stock" replacement PureOne 14459 for my car, I use the PureOne 24458 with a 50% longer media cartridge. Some firms (Wix and Baldwin, for example) are good about providing media area for a given filter if you e-mail them.

[ January 29, 2004, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: TC ]

JIM361 · Jan 29, 2004

Look into competition oil pumps. They may list the stock output flow. But this will only give you a rough comparison. The pumps relief valve controlls the output pressure . The engine bearings , RPM and oil viscosity determine the final amount of flow like the nozzle at the end of a garden hose.
The use of an oversized filter will add a little more flow ( via less pressure drop ) reduce or eliminate any bypassing, but will not automaticly give you better filtration. By doubling the filter area you also double the total number of passagees that allow particles of various sizes to go through. A slighly clogged filter will do a better job than a brand new one. So by doubling the filter area you may never get to the "sweet spot" of your filters life.
I would upgrade to a filter with a lower micron rating and better construction than a Fram. The lower micron rating filter may be more restrictive, but since you've doubled the filter area the flow should be OK.
JIM

Dan4510 · Jan 29, 2004

Needtoknow,

If you are using a ph8a, donaldson and fleetguard make ph8a-fl1a equivalent that use synthetic media that filters down to 7 mirons nominal and flow at 14gpm. I am currently using donaldson on my cars.

donaldson #p169071
fleetguard #lf3487

Dan

XS650 · Jan 29, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
Needtoknow,

If you are using a ph8a, donaldson and fleetguard make ph8a-fl1a equivalent that use synthetic media that filters down to 7 mirons nominal and flow at 14gpm. I am currently using donaldson on my cars.

donaldson #p169071
fleetguard #lf3487

How are the prices and general availability? Is there any apparant difference in quality?

Dan

needtoknow · Jan 29, 2004

Originally posted by TC:
[QB] To help complicate things, flow is also pressure related. If a hypothetical pump pushes a certain quantity of oil at 35 psi, it will flow more if pressure is bumped up to 45 psi, for example.

Actually pumps just flow oil, resistance to flow provides pressure. Pressure is a measurement of resistance. Pressure drop (differential) has a relationship to flow. The increase in pressure measured at the pump to 45psi assumes a higher pressure drop and therefore higher flow. But if the increase in pressure just allows more oil to flow over the pressure relief valve(blocked filter) then less flow is through the filter. Controling pressure is actually controlling flow by reducing pump flow, bleed off, or reduced resistance.

Dan4510 · Jan 29, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
Needtoknow,

If you are using a ph8a, donaldson and fleetguard make ph8a-fl1a equivalent that use synthetic media that filters down to 7 mirons nominal and flow at 14gpm. I am currently using donaldson on my cars.

donaldson #p169071
fleetguard #lf3487

How are the prices and general availability? Is there any apparant difference in quality?

Dan

Click to expand...

Prices are about $10-$12. I cut both filters open and the elements were the same, even down to the machine stamp on the endplate. Measured exactly the same and had the same number of pleats in teh element. I just like the donaldson because it is slick black color. The fleetguard is a white canister. I think functionally they both are the same.

You can usually find these filters at a heavy over the road truck parts house.

John Deere also sells fleetguard.

link for online purchase of fleetguard:

http://johndeerefilters.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=JDF&Product_Code=LF3487

If you cant find either of these, the baldwin b2-hpg is also excellent. 8 micron nominal but flows only about 7gpm. Still excellent specifications. I have used this filter too and it kept oil clean a very long time.

Dan

needtoknow · Jan 29, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
Needtoknow,

If you are using a ph8a, donaldson and fleetguard make ph8a-fl1a equivalent that use synthetic media that filters down to 7 mirons nominal and flow at 14gpm. I am currently using donaldson on my cars.

donaldson #p169071
fleetguard #lf3487

How are the prices and general availability? Is there any apparant difference in quality?

Dan

Click to expand...

Thanks Dan, I don't know of anyplace around here that sells them as I havn't looked yet. Are these sold at truck parts supply or hydraulic houses? I can go on the web of each and get a location. I'm also trying to get something easily available, for me that's Advance Auto. Even it is an 18 mile 1 way drive. I'll look at the web sites to see. Thanks for the info. Glad I don't have to do the cross.

T-Keith · Jan 29, 2004

I'd say there are plenty of more reasons for not using a Fram. Poor ADBV, cardboard endcaps, poor sealing, ect.

-T

needtoknow · Jan 30, 2004

I found where I can get Donaldson but the drive is way far. There is a local Fleetguard dealer but he doesn't stock this filter as he only does big trucks. He can order it if I take a case of 12. Price is $10.40. Flow came out excellant at 14GPM with a 10 micron nominal. There is another number for a Fram PH8A it is LF3313 flows 10.57gpm, the LF3487 is considered an upgrade. I may order a case. Will do more research first. Anybody for the pump GPM's yet?

XS650 · Jan 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:

John Deere also sells fleetguard.

link for online purchase of fleetguard:

http://johndeerefilters.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=JDF&Product_Code=LF3487

Dan

Thanks Dan, nice site. Their LF3554 synthetic media filter PH52 replacement for a Chevy V8 is only $6.17. It is listed as synthetic media. Is that their Stratapore or do they have other synthetic media?

****

Dan4510 · Jan 30, 2004

****,

Yes, Stratapore is fleetguards version of synthetic media. Actually, after researching it, I found out that another company developed the media and its used in many applications including artificial kidneys. I think donaldson and fleetguard pay to use the technology.

Donaldson calls their media synteq, fleetguard calls theirs stratopore. They appear to be the same after taking the two filters apart.

Dan

XS650 · Jan 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
****,

Yes, Stratapore is fleetguards version of synthetic media.

Dan

Thanks, I just ordered 10. Shipping via UPS ground was high and drove the price up. The total order still came in at $8.46 each delivered to my door. Not bad for a premium filter and I didn't have to drive all over to find them.

needtoknow · Jan 30, 2004

Don't know why the customer service person didn't give me Deere. There's a Deere place close by. I'll call directly. Seems the price is better through Deere as well?? Thanks for all the tech info.

Oil Pump Flow

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