Oil in my throttle body?

[crashz]

My 2001 F150 V6 had oil in the intake (after the TB) at 20K. the PCV tube is right behind the throttle plate, and you can actually see the trailing gunk from the PCV system. I had a clear fuel filter rigged up to the tube that filled with oil. I only took it out because I thought it was getting a little hot for a fuel filter.

Though this engine runs better than my previous F150, the 97 was much cleaner. I attribute this the the design of the PCV system and EGR system working harder on my "LEV" certified truck.

 

[Amkeer]

mtnet,

They are telling you that because oily residue in the intake manifold is normal. My truck has it and I am sure my 2003 has it also. If you are concerned do an induction cleaning.

 

[Gary Allan]

You will get "some" residue whereever the crankcase vent mounts. This should look like a streak from the point of ingress. Not a problem ..normal... But to have the entire intake saturated with oil ..AND HAVE THE EXCESS BLOW BY BE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ABUNDANT to have it overwhelm the "in" vent and also SATURATE the throttle body from above the throttle plate.....

IS NOT NORMAL.

(some conditions and restrictions apply for TC and SC)

 

[Amkeer]

Its part of emmissions with the light oil coating the plenum. The vapors from PCV,EGR and vent tube allow oily residue to eventually build up in the chambers.

 

[Gary Allan]

Okay ..I'm up for some "new" knowledge. Let's take a poll.

How many of you will take off your hardware (air intake plastic fixtures) to view your throttle bodies and see if the amount of blowby is such that the PCV or CCV (CrankCase Vent=metered orifice) is overwhelmed to the point that oil migration is no longer limited to the PCV and CCV vents and saturates the throttle body above the throttle plate (ie upstream of the throttle body)???

Me ...none! Out of 4 vehicles ..and every one that I've ever owned ...NONE!!!

 

[Terry]

Gary's right, in a animated sort of way, that things are not right.

You my friend have been sludged by Toyota, and your rings are allowing excess blowby because they are stuck with crud. If you have more than a vapor coating on areas you mention get some Auto-RX and clean it up. Once the rings reseal your excess oil will be a thing of the past. Provided its not damaged a ring pack. From your comments I doubt it.

These new engines will stick rings in 20,000 miles if the conditions are right and the oil is average. And judging by the comments above and oil analysis results I see its not just Toyota that is having issues.

Terry

 

[ekpolk]

mtnet: I hope I didn't miss it, but what type/grade of oil are you using? I've got the 2003.5 VVT-i version of that engine. I had the leaky head cover (front bank, minor, whole cover replaced under wty), but I haven't seen inside the intake. A theoretical question: could an oil with a high Noack-% rating aggravate this problem?

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

Gary's right, in a animated sort of way, that things are not right.

---

My wife says that my writing has a tendancy to **** people off with my "going overboard" style to make my point.

I do, however, thank you for validating my assertions here

I felt like the child in "The Emporer's New Clothes". Was I the only one who saw something wrong here (bewildered gaze off into nothing)??

(visions of AIRPLANE the movie "That's funny. John never vomits at home")

[ May 08, 2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[Amkeer]

Its not normal for a motor to have a wet, oily saturated, intake system from the plastic hoses through the throttlebody to the plenum down to the manifold. Its normal for a motor to have a residue from pcv to intake plenum to intake manifold as pictured above. Its normal oil vapors for the emmissions system.

Here is a link covering some intake problems with:
1994 -1999 (AB) Ram Van
1994 -1999 (AN) Dakota
1994 -1999 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
1998 - 1999 (DN) Durango
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee

NOTE: CLEAN ALL OIL RESIDUE FROM THE INTERIOR SURFACES OF THE PLENUM PAN AND THE INTAKE MANIFOLD PLENUM CHAMBER.

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2000/09-05-00.htm

Another link:

This can get coated with sticky oil residue from the PCV system, leading to poor performance over 3400 rpm when the butterflies don't open.

Again, oily PCV fumes get into the throttle body and cause the butterfly there to stick.

http://www.shoclub.com/editorial/editorial2-4&3-1.html

http://www.se-r.net/engine/clean_throttle_body.html#Some additional Info

http://lists.twistedpair.ca/pipermail/classic-mustangs/1999-May/016974.html

http://www.cartrackers.com/Forums/live/fordwindstar/1402.html

http://www.ducatisuite.com/emissions.html

[ May 09, 2004, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Amkeer ]

 

[mtnet2000]

Before I discovered the oil in my intake a couple of weeks ago, I had my oil changed at a Shell Quick Lube, I ordered Synthetic oil 5w30, what would happen if the used a heavier weight oil in my engine? Like a 10-15wt oil would this cause oil to go into my air induction? Just trying to eliminate the possibilities here

 

[mtnet2000]

The only reason I thought about this, is because when I was at the Shell Quick Lube, I thought I heard one of there techs say to the other tech that the only synthetic oil they have is 15w-50. When I questioned the tech about it he said "No" there where talking about something else. But what if they lied to me and went ahead and put the 15W-50 oil in there! And from that point a drove about 2000 Miles!

 

[Amkeer]

Its normal, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT! Read the links above if you are concerned or get a second opinion from a mechanic. You already changed the PCV so if you want the deposits out do a induction cleaning.

 

[Gary Allan]

No switch in oil viscosity would cause that type of blowby increase, IMHO. IF you had a shot engine (which is totally unlikely given your mileage) ..a heavier oil may reduce the occurance of blowby. Maybe straight 10 weight at 75 mph for extended time...but not a multivisc.

Just my opinion....

 

[Gary Allan]

AMkeer. There is no mechanic in the known universe that will say that an oil soaked throttle body is NORMAL. Why you insist that this is "normal" is beyond me.


You are wrong! NO mechanic, auto manufacturerer, or shade tree mechanic can POSSIBLY call this normal.

He has "issues". This is EXCESSIVE blowby.

It is excessive blowby of a 1969 engine ..it is excessive blowby for a 1999 engine ...it WILL BE excessive blowby for any engine produced in the near future. NO MANUFACTURER would design and build an engine with this as a "normal" operational feature.

 

[Amkeer]

Gary,

You are wrong bud! Go back and read chronological order of events on this post. Look at the pictures carefully that were provided by the poster. It is clearly oil residue which is gummy and not WET SOAKED! This is NORMAL! It is part of emmissions especially on these Toyotas with hotter heads. You need to do your research before you freak people out with misinformation. I have seen motorcycle intakes with the same residue. My 95 has it and I am sure my 2003 has it by now. If its dripping wet with oil and reaches back to where the throttle body and seeping back to air filter then we have a problem. Show me basis to your argument that a vehicle should NOT have oil residue in the intake chamber and manifold. That it should be perfectly clean like your vehicles mentioned above. Show me!

When did you take the intake manifold off your vehicles and what for?

[ May 16, 2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Amkeer ]

 

[Ken4]

The original poster only posted pics of his intake manifold. I also think it is normal for the intake manifold to have oil. Both my toyotas also suffer this problem. Oil gets pass the PCV valve and into the manifold. I thought of putting an oil catch tank in between, but after thinking about it, I think it may have some disadvantages too. With the oil catch tank and extra tubing, there will definately be more resistance, therefore poorer ventilation. And oil may start coming out of the bypass instead! If an oil catch tank was the solution, Toyota would have already thought about that and installed them as standard equipment. Maybe it is a good idea to have oil vapours lubricate the intake valves!

 

[Gary Allan]

You merely have to provide a place for the vapor to lose its velocity. This is as common as a shop vac in principle. You don't have to add any restriction ...with the exception of length to the hose...which can be easily compensated by larger hose.

Sure oil some oil is normal. Ever since multipoint injection there's been nothing to remove the residue in the intake ..so it will accumulate.

I think you will agree, however, that there is a difference between acceptible oil migration and unacceptable oil saturation. This ...is the latter.

 

[Ken4]

The other school of thought I have is that if the oil catch tank is say 1 litre volume, the intake manifold has to suck that much more air before it begins to draw up the crankcase vapours. And given that high vacuum is usually only achieved during deceleration. The majority of the time, it will be operating on low vacuum or little to no vacuum. And everytime vacuum is killed, the catch tank again has to struggle to build up vacuum. It's a catch 22 situation here. So oil in the intake or poorer ventilation? Probably oil in the intake is the lesser of the two evils.

 

[mtnet2000]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amkeer:
Gary,

You are wrong bud! Go back and read chronological order of events on this post. Look at the pictures carefully that were provided by the poster. It is clearly oil residue which is gummy and not WET SOAKED! This is NORMAL! It is part of emmissions especially on these Toyotas with hotter heads. You need to do your research before you freak people out with misinformation. I have seen motorcycle intakes with the same residue. My 95 has it and I am sure my 2003 has it by now. If its dripping wet with oil and reaches back to where the throttle body and seeping back to air filter then we have a problem. Show me basis to your argument that a vehicle should NOT have oil residue in the intake chamber and manifold. That it should be perfectly clean like your vehicles mentioned above. Show me!

When did you take the intake manifold off your vehicles and what for?

---

Actually Gary is right! I do have wet oil, in my intake going out the throttle body! This is what I explained to toyota! Yes, there should be some carbon build up in my intake, but I have pure wet fresh oil in my intake. I took apart my girlfriends intake this weekend and all she had in her air induction was carbon; and this is a 98 Ford Contour! The only reason I started this thread is so I can get some info and go back to toyota with it! (Thank you Much)

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

Show me basis to your argument that a vehicle should NOT have oil residue in the intake chamber and manifold. That it should be perfectly clean like your vehicles mentioned above. Show me!

When did you take the intake manifold off your vehicles and what for?

---

No ..no ..no..you've got my arguement WRONG

There WILL be "residue" from the normal blowby gasses that are supposed to be vented into the intake via the PCV valve or the CCV metered orifice. This is "normal". Carb engines had no such residue much beyond the ingress point of the PCV hose since the air/fuel mixture washed down the intake. This also happened with TBI. Now that mulitpoint injection is the norm ..SURE ..you will get a coating of oil in the intake starting at the point of ingress for the PCV or CCV.

WHAT IS NOT NORMAL IS TO HAVE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH BLOW BY THAT THE VENT HOSE PUKES IT OUT IN SUCH A VOLUME THAT YOUR THROTTLE BODY IS SATURATED.

This is EXCESSIVE BLOW BY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and will NEVER BE "NORMAL" in anyone's book!!!

My intakes on my JEEPS DO NOT HAVE OIL COATING THE ENTIRE INTAKE. That's because I have a CCV which attaches to ONE RUNNER of my intake. MY assertion is that MY THOTTLE BODY DOESN'T HAVE ANY ..REPEAT ANY OIL ON IT.

That's why I said "let's take a poll" and everyone take off their PLASTIC PLUMBING HARWARE and LOOK at their throttle bodies for OIL SATURATION.

I have NONE!! in any car I've ever owned ...NONE!! ZIP!! NADA.

If you consider an oil soaked throttle body "normal" ...I've got some real good property in Florida and Louisiana that is perfectly suitable for your dream house. Water is totally normal as a substrata for building conventional housing on.

Trust me!!!! Would I lie??

All in fun......