Oil for Stage 2 2007 Legacy GT

[skrypj]

Hi Everyone,

I am looking for a recommendation on the 2007 Legacy Spec.b (2.5L Turbo Boxer) that I just purchased. The car has 37000 miles with all documented oil changes. Based on the cost of the changes it looks like it was synthetic however I couldnt tell you the brand. The car is currently sitting at Stage 2(Stock turbo, Catted Downpipe, 3" Catback Exhaust, intake and dyno tune by a reputable subi tuner.) It makes 272hp to the wheels on a conservative dyno to give you an idea of what the motor is dealing with at the moment.

My driving habits range from a gentle drive to work, to a multiple WOT pulls depending on my mood that day. I drag raced my last car and probably will with this one as well from time to time. I do plan on trying to pull some more power from this car. hopefully I will be at 350hp to the wheels when all is said and done.

I came here because this site is dedicated to oil, at the legacy forum there is not general consensus on what to use. Some people say M1 sucks(boxer consumes it), some dont, some use the cheapest walmart oil they can find, others freak out etc.

Also, I plan on keeping my OCI's down to 3000-3500mi as there seems to be issues with the stock turbo getting starved of oil cause the filter clogs, either that or i can remove the filter and hope [censored] doesnt get into the turbo. My turbo is already being pushed to the limit so i would like to keep it around till I decide to upgrade.

Sorry for the novel, THanks!

EDit: Factory calls for 5w-30 or 10W-40 depending on the climate.

 

[SubLGT]

Since your engine is modded, go for a 5W-40 or a 0W-40. Lots of good choices in those viscosities.

 

[Hollow]

Rotella T6 5w40.

 

[ammolab]

M1 0W-40 would be my choice. I would mount an Oil Temp gauge and NEVER WOT it until that thing was off the "peg" a bit.

 

[CATERHAM]

First welcome to BITOG!

With your modified Subie the first thing I'd do is install a good oil pressure gauge if you're car doesn't have one already.
This will tell what the operational viscosity of your engine oil is at any given time.
I'd start with any 5W-30 synthetic, preferably one that meets the Honda HTO-06 tubo spec'.
Unless you road race your car you likely won't need anything heavier than that, but the OP gauge will tell you if you do.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I'D run a superbike 4T synthetic oil in there. M1R4T used to be EOM best oil. ABSOLUTELY NO ILSAC oils with that power density. My Stock non turbo EJ253 would kill ILSAC GF4 5w30 during the spring>fall with spirited driving.

 

[Rand]

I'd run a 5w40 like rotella T or m1 0w40

 

[DrivinWest]

I'd run Rotella T6 5w40 or German Castrol 0w30 (it's a heavy 30). Everyone knows M1 makes Subaru engines explode!

 

[skrypj]

I keep hearing people saying no to M1 in subarus.

Also I always give my car a good 5 minutes idling in the morning before i even move it. It has a little light that turns off when its warm and I wait for that plus some. I am planning on getting oil temp and pressure gauges, unfortunately/fortunately the car came with the factory nav but that blocks the ideal spot for the gauges.

Thanks for the input everyone!

 

[dparm]

Why are they saying "no" to M1 in Subarus? That's a preposterous generalization.

 

[skrypj]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Why are they saying "no" to M1 in Subarus? That's a preposterous generalization.


A lot of people on Legacygt.com see increased oil consumption with M1 over others. Their engines, at least the 2.5L, seem to be notorious for oil consumption and apparently M1 makes it worse. Then of course the high iron issue and the wear test issue from back in 2008 doesn't help matters.

I personally only ever use M1 in my cars so i have nothing against it, I just have heard a enough anti-M1 comments on that site to makes me double check things.

 

[thr_wedge]

I just sold a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT 5 speed with 77,000 miles on the clock. I ran Mobil 1 5W30 with a 3500 mile OCI. I never saw any obscene oil consumption and rarely had to top off.

It was a fun car but had more than a few quirks. PM me if you want some non-fanboy input on the car.

 

[bluesubie]

The hate on Mobil1 at lgt and at nasioc is based on some experiences with the 5W-30 Energy/Resource Conserving variety. There's also the nut behind the wheel factor as well (improper tune, improper grade for the application, failure to check oil between changes etc).

OTOH, there's always someone like thr_wedge that has run M1 5W-30 for many miles without any problems.

Having had turbo failure on a turbo that only had 20k miles on it (turbo oil screen clogged but no sludge found), you won't catch me running anything with less than a High Temp High Shear of 3.5 (Euro oils, Red Line, HDEO's, etc.). Although my failure could have been that I ran the oil too long (two 8k mile intervals with good uoa's). Although the new GF-5 spec oils look impressive, and are supposed to control turbo deposits/sludge better.

Smart move getting a protune because a tuner will probably dial back some of the fuel that the OTS map has if you have an AP. Basically, I would run anything that is not Resource/Energy Conserving. It's funny that ARCO mentioned the Mobil1 MC oil. The worlds biggest EC/RC 5W-30 in a Subaru turbo hater, Uncle Scotty at nasioc, adds one quart of it to Rotella T6.

I've run M1 0W-40 before, and while wear was very good, the TBN was shot at 1.99 with a 6k mile interval showing no life was left in the oil. And that was before I went with the AP Stage I reflash. I definitely think it would be fine if you're sticking to 3,000-3,500 mile intervals and it's on sale for $30 for 5 quarts right now at Autozone. Since people here love it show much, I'm thinking of giving it another shot since it was reformulated for API SN. Personally, I've never run RT6 because I prefer friction modified oils. I'm even thinking of spiking M1 0W-40 with their 0W-30 Race Oil.

BTW,

-Dennis

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
............I'd start with any 5W-30 synthetic, preferably one that meets the Honda HTO-06 tubo spec'.
Unless you road race your car you likely won't need anything heavier than that.......


If you posted that at one of the Subaru enthusiast forums like nasioc or iwsti, some folks would be organizing a lynching party.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
............I'd start with any 5W-30 synthetic, preferably one that meets the Honda HTO-06 tubo spec'.
Unless you road race your car you likely won't need anything heavier than that.......

If you posted that at one of the Subaru enthusiast forums like nasioc or iwsti, some folks would be organizing a lynching party.

That wouldn't happen because the BMW bloggers would get me first for running a 0W-20!

 

[Flying_A]

As an avid Subaru enthusiast (2 WRX's and track prepped STi) I always used the Rotella T6 5W-40 with zero issues, other HDEO oils like Delvac 1 and Delo Syn could also be used with great success. I know a lot of the guys on NASIOC bash M1 5W-30 but let's face it, the 5W-30 especially when modded is not ideal for the turboed EJ motors as they are pretty harsh on oil. M1 0W-40 really is the gold standard of all 40W syns out there, it's a great oil. You could also go with the equivalent, Pennzoil Ultra/ Platinum 5W-40, QSUD 5W-40, Castrol etc.

 

[CATERHAM]

You haven't presented any evidence that running a heavier than spec' oil is necessary in a street use only application.
I'd be the first to suggest that a 5W-30 like M1 may be on the light side in a tracked car with increased boost where very high temp's are likely, but while high oil temp's may be likely on the track it's very unlikely on the street.

Instead of automatically running a grade heavier oil, the best advise to anyone who thinks they may be generating much higher than normal oil temp's with the way they drive or due to higher engine output is to install an oil pressure gauge. An oil temp' gauge is a nice addition but it's the OP gauge that also tells you if the oil shears in service and by how much. It is a viscometer, so you are no longer driving blind. You'll know the actual operational viscosity of the oil every second the engine is running.
On the off chance that the oil pressure drops (due to high oil temp's) to a point lower than optimum when you're really hammering it, you'll know it and under what conditions it happens. You'll also learn that the second you take your foot out of it, the oil temp's will immediately drop and the OP rise, so the situation is entirely manageable.

You'll also learn when the oil pump goes into by-pass mode because the oil is too thick. Even the spec' 5W-30 oil will be too thick a lot of the time, at least until the oil temp's hit 90C or so. Since it's a good practice not to run the engine in by-pass mode, you've got a window of operating conditions; when you can use max' rev's without going into by-pass and the optimum minimum oil pressure point.

The problem with running a heavier oil, is that it raises the point (oil temp') before which you can use max' rev's without going into by-pass. That can be quite frustrating if it happens too much of the time particularly if the conditions under which the oil temp's are too high rarely occurs. You may ultimately prefer to stick with the spec' oil for the flexibility of being able to get on the gas sooner during the warming up process and simply take it easy when the oil starts to get too hot.

 

[Xstang]

Caterham-while you make a very compelling point, the fact is that the oil filters in a subaru are spec'd to go into bypass at 23psi.

When I ran castrol syntec 5w-30(sm) for 4k, it used about 3/4 quart of oil; syntec edge 5w-30 used the same for nearly 5k. Mobil 1 5w-30(sm)? Try just under two quarts in about 4400 miles.

The last two changes with Rotella T6 5w-40, one at 3k and the last one 4k, I had to add zero make up the whole time.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Xstang
the fact is that the oil filters in a subaru are spec'd to go into bypass at 23psi.

We're not talking about a scenerio when an oil filter clogs and releases the oil unfiltered. No engine will survive at elevated rev's with only 23 psi of oil pressure. Even without an OP gauge the low oil pressure idiot light will come on. Ignore the warning at your peril.

 

[45ACP]

OP, what are your oil temps on the street?

This seems to be the crux of the issue, not so much oil pressure (though that is valid as well.)

23Psi.. needs to be above that, right? Seems a pretty low number. May work at hot idle, maybe, that number. Not sure. Please explain "bypass" thank you (some feel NO oil gets to the top, some say that a spring opens up and oil still gets up there it just goes through a valve.)