Oil for long run time/idling

[Jonas]

Hey all! I deliver food through Doordash and I leave my car running for hours at a time in frequent heavy traffic. I drive a 2009 Vibe (Matrix) with the 2.4 2az-fe engine. In the Matrix manual it recommends 0w-20, Vibe manual says 5w-20 oil. It also states a higher viscosity oil may be suited for high speeds or extreme load conditions. Neither of those apply to me, but what about excessive run times in traffic? The reason I ask is because my engine is kind of noisy and I can hear ticking (I've heard this is normal for most Toyota 4 bangers) but I also recently noticed a sound like dragging a bag of aluminum cans across the ground when accelerating at low rpm uphill or under a pull or load. It sounds about the same as when my last car blew a radiator hose and overheated without my immediate knowledge, like severe knock and detonation. It's not as loud and fairly infrequent, but the sound quality is dead on the same. Could my oil be getting too hot/thin or is it something else entirely? Please let me know what you think. I'm running PUP 5w-20 with a denso filter at 169,000 miles. Thanks!

 

[wpod]

5W-30 oil.

 

[Astro14]

You can get Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 on Amazon for $24.xx a jug. A fine oil at a decent price (free Prime shipping). I would give it a try, and see what the results are.

The sound it makes accelerating still sounds like detonation.

How many miles on this?

 

[Danno]

5W-30 as suggested. I would try QSUD. You don't say how often you change your oil.
Try a tank or 2 of premium gas and see if the aluminum can noise is reduced and check back here.

 

[OIL_UDDER]

Def 5w-30.

Journal bearings operate on relative velocity and at idle they are close to not being hydrostatic; which would significantly increase engine wear. Depends on the bearing sizes, load, materials, surface finish etc. Good news is there is definitely lots margin in the design (no OEM would make something borderline) BUT a 5w will float sooner than a 0w. Giving you more margin at lower engine speeds. Pressure is only to get oil to the bearings, not keep them from contacting. Common misunderstanding with engines.

Hope this helps!

 

[Jonas]

You can get Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 on Amazon for $24.xx a jug. A fine oil at a decent price (free Prime shipping). I would give it a try, and see what the results are.

The sound it makes accelerating still sounds like detonation.

How many miles on this?

169k

 

[Jonas]

5W-30 as suggested. I would try QSUD. You don't say how often you change your oil.
Try a tank or 2 of premium gas and see if the aluminum can noise is reduced and check back here.

Under 5k OCI. I have about 1k on the ultra platinum 5w20 right now.

 

[Jonas]

Def 5w-30.

Journal bearings operate on relative velocity and at idle they are close to not being hydrostatic; which would significantly increase engine wear. Depends on the bearing sizes, load, materials, surface finish etc. Good news is there is definitely lots margin in the design (no OEM would make something borderline) BUT a 5w will float sooner than a 0w. Giving you more margin at lower engine speeds. Pressure is only to get oil to the bearings, not keep them from contacting. Common misunderstanding with engines.

Hope this helps!

"BUT a 5w will float sooner than a 0w" I'm not sure what that means. My oil is 5w20.

 

[kschachn]

Def 5w-30.

Journal bearings operate on relative velocity and at idle they are close to not being hydrostatic; which would significantly increase engine wear. Depends on the bearing sizes, load, materials, surface finish etc. Good news is there is definitely lots margin in the design (no OEM would make something borderline) BUT a 5w will float sooner than a 0w. Giving you more margin at lower engine speeds. Pressure is only to get oil to the bearings, not keep them from contacting. Common misunderstanding with engines.

Hope this helps!

Sounds more like the usual misunderstanding of the winter rating.

If you really want a higher MOFT then you use a 30-grade as has been mentioned here.

 

[OIL_UDDER]

"BUT a 5w will float sooner than a 0w" I'm not sure what that means. My oil is 5w20.

As in the bearings will go hydrodymanic sooner! Sorry should have clarified. Being lazy today...

At operating temp you should be looking at the second rating number. As in 20 vs. 30 weight.

 

[Danno]

I think the term is hydrodynamic state of lubrication, and oil_udder is saying a 5W will get into that state quicker than a 0W oil.

 

[Jonas]

As in the bearings will go hydrodymanic sooner! Sorry should have clarified. Being lazy today...

At operating temp you should be looking at the second rating number. As in 20 vs. 30 weight.

I see. Yes, thank you.

 

[Jonas]

I think the term is hydrodynamic state of lubrication, and oil_udder is saying a 5W will get into that state quicker than a 0W oil.

Ah, yes. Makes sense.

 

[OIL_UDDER]

I think the term is hydrodynamic state of lubrication, and oil_udder is saying a 5W will get into that state quicker than a 0W oil.

Correct. To be more clear that 5w rating is when the oil is cold. So if we want to be right we should assume the engine and oil is at operating temp. Therefore a 5w30 will provide that extra hydrodynamic margin over a 5w20.

I hope that helps. Sorry I should slow down sometimes! My bad

 

[OIL_UDDER]

It's just like a water ski really. If you need to ski at a slower speed (engine idle) you'd want one of two things.... water a wider ski (bearing area, can't change that!) or thicker water! Same concept.

 

[Jonas]

This engine was spec'd for 5w-30 up until at least 2007 and mine is a 2009. Both the oil cap and owners manual say 5w-20, but that caveat about higher viscosity for high speed/load always intrigued/bothered me. Should I try some STP or some thick additive in the meantime or just change my oil? I'm off today, so now would be the time.

 

[OIL_UDDER]

This engine was spec'd for 5w-30 up until at least 2007 and mine is a 2009. Both the oil cap and owners manual say 5w-20, but that caveat about higher viscosity for high speed/load always intrigued/bothered me. Should I try some STP or some thick additive in the meantime or just change my oil? I'm off today, so now would be the time.

Personally there just isn't enough control for me with additives and I would worry about creating other issues. So if it was my car I would change it so you know whats in there. Again that is me and my stuff.

One the professional side (in the dyno labs at Chrysler) we never did additives unless they were added by the vendor (Exxon, Pennzoil etc). We could then get a good A-B test vs. the previous mix. Just too many variables for an OEM to trust the results of. Again, just my experience.

 

[kschachn]

I think the term is hydrodynamic state of lubrication, and oil_udder is saying a 5W will get into that state quicker than a 0W oil.

Not necessarily, it is completely dependent on temperature. It is quite possible for a 0W rated oil to be thicker than a 5W rated oil except at very low temperatures, far below typical ambient.

 

[Averroes]

This engine was spec'd for 5w-30 up until at least 2007 and mine is a 2009. Both the oil cap and owners manual say 5w-20, but that caveat about higher viscosity for high speed/load always intrigued/bothered me. Should I try some STP or some thick additive in the meantime or just change my oil? I'm off today, so now would be the time.

Hey Jonas,
I'd make the switch today if you're off. Go with PP ultra 5w30 an did not that then M1 EP 5w30 both are fantastic oils. For an oil filter I'd grab either a Fram tough guard or a Napa/wix gold. Try premium gas for two fill ups, for that can noise. If not try some STP complete fuel cleaner, pop it in the ga tank, what's there to loose?

 

[kschachn]

This engine was spec'd for 5w-30 up until at least 2007 and mine is a 2009. Both the oil cap and owners manual say 5w-20, but that caveat about higher viscosity for high speed/load always intrigued/bothered me. Should I try some STP or some thick additive in the meantime or just change my oil? I'm off today, so now would be the time.

No, STP only thickens at the expense of additives. If you want a higher viscosity then buy a higher viscosity fully formulated motor oil. The suggestion to use a 30-grade is the correct one.