Oil for a Direct Injection engine?

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And I think things are improving, anyhow. Several manufacturers are doing things like hybrid injection (a port injection type splash every few cycles) to keep things clean. New technologies always take time. People don't like beta testing, but that's life. Look at the carb that was on my F-150. That existed for only one model year and was one of the biggest pieces of garbage in fuel delivery history.
 
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
The GC 0w30 is great. You can use 30 weight and never look back.


This is true. If only it were easy to find.
 
I'd use redline for its ability to resist shearing from fuel dilution, and from high loads.
Also, DI does not cause deposits - only EGR and PCV do that. Do you have smog? If not, map out the egr and vent the PCV to the exhaust.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
And I think things are improving, anyhow. Several manufacturers are doing things like hybrid injection (a port injection type splash every few cycles) to keep things clean. New technologies always take time. People don't like beta testing, but that's life. Look at the carb that was on my F-150. That existed for only one model year and was one of the biggest pieces of garbage in fuel delivery history.


The hybrid design is NOT to keep valves clean. There is no evidence that the hybrid system will make any difference.
 
at the very best,the most that manufacturers have done with the latest and best in DI designs,is extend the issue for down the road miles later compared to earlier designs. ...attentive owners obviously faring better but not really solving the main issue entirely,just extending it.


there's a large host of technologies out there currently that based on their claims,which is fuel economy,in other words,saving you money,is a total farce.

then again,some of you keep your cars for 3 to 5 years so you probably don't care,...but it will catch up with you,eventually.

I get a kick every time I hear someone say "i have XXX miles and no problems" or such like.


flame suit on.
 
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Originally Posted By: badtlc
The hybrid design is NOT to keep valves clean. There is no evidence that the hybrid system will make any difference.

Hmmm. Magazine articles have claimed that's what it was for. What do you suggest it's for, then? As for evidence, we simply have to wait and see. As it is, all we have is a fistful of anecdotes with internet amplification with regards to GDI, if one wants to nitpick.
 
Here is a very interesting 2013 "slide show" from GS Caltex:

"Considerations on Carbon Deposit Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection Engine"

http://www.pecj.or.jp/japanese/overseas/conference/pdf/conference12-19.pdf

There is even a reference to BITOG in one of the slides
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"...Our investigation revealed that the weight of the carbon deposits on the intake valve and combustion chamber had an inverse-proportional relationship with the average engine load on the GDI engine. In addition, the shapes of carbon deposits that formed on the combustion chamber varied as a function of the engine load. The TGA results also showed that the intake valve deposits were largely affected by lubricants, while the carbon deposits in the combustion chamber were mainly generated from gasoline…"

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-33750-5_45
 
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Yes, posted some time ago...
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ren#Post3687558

"A small reference to BITOG is even given.


http://www.pecj.or.jp/japanese/overseas/conference/pdf/conference12-19.pdf

from 9/2013

Discussed:

Deposits in GDI vs PFI
IVD and CCD deposits
Effects of engine load on deposits
Effects of fuel and deposit formation
Effects of older oil vs fresh oil
Group II vs III vs IV regading fresh oil and used oil(very interesting page 15 of 20)

I just wish i knew how they defined 'used' oil."
 
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I have a '15 4 cyl Accord and am not going to lose any sleep over it. Knew GDI issues when I bought it. There has been a phobia of the new in automotive since I was teenager in 1960s. Some justified/some not.

One thing not mentioned much in this thread is leakage past the valve guides. This traditionally has been major source of intake valve deposits-going way previous to FI, EGR etc. Old small block Chevy's occasionally had half inch of crud on intake valve tops and stems. Certainly can remember grinding it off on a wire wheel. In some cases the deposits looked hideous but didn't impact the driveability all that much. Of course the GDI doesn't provide much intake valve washing so problems could be magnified.

Since I suspect even today, a portion of these deposits are from valve guides (and more from PCV vapor), I would say the oil should receive a careful look. I would think anything with lower volatility, and lower ash deposits would be a plus.

We surely must be at 100,000 plus miles for many GDI engines at this point. Ecoboost Ford V6 etc have had cam chain issues but I'm not hearing intake valve problems. I would think the uproar would be louder if generally the issue was as great as on some Minis, VWs etc. Effectiveness of intake guide sealing, vapor separation, intake reversion patterns, valve face temperature, and possibly more could influence deposit buildup.
 
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Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Garak
Several manufacturers are doing things like hybrid injection (a port injection type splash every few cycles) to keep things clean.


The hybrid design is NOT to keep valves clean. There is no evidence that the hybrid system will make any difference.


Toyota has stated that their hybrid injector design using both PFI and DI was specifically to address part throttle cylinder filling issues. Per other industry sources like Porsche this is a problem with DI engines if not carefully addressed...
 
A hybrid system is an awful lot of trouble to solve the problem. Adding cost, complexity and more points of failure to an already complex system. Modders don't know what to do with do with di but rip it out.
 
Actually IMO this is another case where the net inflames the issue. I feel certain there are literally millions of happy DI owners who would never know they had an issue. Most are probably on their way to the bank or grocery store, without a care.

But we only hear about the few with issues...
 
My accent is at 6k miles on some hi noack super synthetic 5w20.

I've given up on worrying about it. Hurts my head.

Some say noack is the key. Others say it isn't. Some say it's the weight of the oil others say it's not the oil. Oh well.

Some say it's only the turbo di engines. I give up. lol
 
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I agree with SteveSRT8. We may be looking for a problem that doesn't really affect most drivers. My 2007 Mazda DI CX7 was running like new when I sold it with ~ 80,000 miles. I now have a 2014 Mazda CX5 and expect the same and I'm not looking for possible problems. Ed
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Actually IMO this is another case where the net inflames the issue. I feel certain there are literally millions of happy DI owners who would never know they had an issue. Most are probably on their way to the bank or grocery store, without a care.

But we only hear about the few with issues...


Yet there are plenty on here who post their intent to wait and let others derisk DI, or trash it all together.
 
Remember too there have been DI diesel engines with closed crankcase systems, most with turbos for decades. Intake valve temps would be all over the map, depending on operating conditions and turbocharging. The one thing nearly all don't have is intake manifold vacuum which tends to suck oil down the valve guides.

I personally don't see this at all insurmountable problem. Like many here I think it is already solved in many cases. Some of the VW, Mini pictures I've seen of the intake tract look like an oily carboned mess. Gunk not only on intake valves but on intake ports and manifold surfaces. Probably poor implementation of PCV vapor separation, active EGR, and valve guides leakage.

I sure can't see where low noack volatility oil could hurt- question.. what current recommendations in 0W20 or 5W20?
 
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Just to clarify, I don't think we're talking about ash technically-I would strongly suspect most of these deposits would burn when exposed to high heat and oxygen. Ash is what you'd see on an exhaust valve -and as you know there isn't much. What's stuck to the intake ports (which run too cool to burn anything) on the VW looks far more like slurry of exhaust particulates and oil that dried into a scale. Everything I see in those pictures look more like poor design than anything generally to do with direct fuel injection.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Actually IMO this is another case where the net inflames the issue. I feel certain there are literally millions of happy DI owners who would never know they had an issue. Most are probably on their way to the bank or grocery store, without a care.

But we only hear about the few with issues...

Yes. There are folks on the Buickforums.com site with close to 100K on their DI-engined Regals, some with turbo and some without. Haven't seen any posts about "Dealer says I need a valve cleaning!!!"
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
A hybrid system is an awful lot of trouble to solve the problem.

Yep, it certainly is, but it might be some progress. Steve mentions that it might be there primarily to solve something else, but if it helps in general, who knows? As he also points out, one never knows with internet amplification, some applications being different than others, and some people not paying attention or worrying.

How many people drove with rather rounded out Chevy SB cams without having a clue?
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