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Oil for 944 Turbo???
- Thread starter macnewma
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Hi,
Yes - RENNLIST is a good source of data for you
I have a MY89 928S4 and have recently changed from Shell Helix Ultra 15w-50 ( synthetic ) to Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40
The difference sinc the change has been quite significant and I'll put a UOA on here soon
Porsche recommend mainly 15w-40/50 oils and M1 is the most popular with Porsche owners
I suggest that you give Delvac 1 a go - its perfect for turbo engines
Other mineral "fleet" 15w-40 oils will do a great job too
The diesel spec is important with Porsche engines so look for say SL/CF>. An oil without a secondary "CH>" or B3-96> rating is not recommended
Regards
Yes - RENNLIST is a good source of data for you
I have a MY89 928S4 and have recently changed from Shell Helix Ultra 15w-50 ( synthetic ) to Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40
The difference sinc the change has been quite significant and I'll put a UOA on here soon
Porsche recommend mainly 15w-40/50 oils and M1 is the most popular with Porsche owners
I suggest that you give Delvac 1 a go - its perfect for turbo engines
Other mineral "fleet" 15w-40 oils will do a great job too
The diesel spec is important with Porsche engines so look for say SL/CF>. An oil without a secondary "CH>" or B3-96> rating is not recommended
Regards
Thanks for all the help everyone!
I have been frequenting Rennlist. It has great forums, but not always alot of great information on oil. I think there is more oil-specific expertise here. Most of what I have read is, "My mechanic says use Mobil 1 15w-50". This may be true, but there may also be more to it than that.
Should I run something that thick? Redline claims their 10w-40 is as thick as a 20w-50 at operating temps...is this marketing hype?
What about the Schaeffer's 700? Should I shy away from a syn blend? Even a supposedly **** good one?
About the Delvac 1, I have thought about it, but I don't know about buying those jugs. My 944 will need ~6 liters. That would require 2 jugs and then I would have a half full jug laying around. Is it ok to have an opened jug of oil in storage for months at a time?
Thanks,
Max
I have been frequenting Rennlist. It has great forums, but not always alot of great information on oil. I think there is more oil-specific expertise here. Most of what I have read is, "My mechanic says use Mobil 1 15w-50". This may be true, but there may also be more to it than that.
Should I run something that thick? Redline claims their 10w-40 is as thick as a 20w-50 at operating temps...is this marketing hype?
What about the Schaeffer's 700? Should I shy away from a syn blend? Even a supposedly **** good one?
About the Delvac 1, I have thought about it, but I don't know about buying those jugs. My 944 will need ~6 liters. That would require 2 jugs and then I would have a half full jug laying around. Is it ok to have an opened jug of oil in storage for months at a time?
Thanks,
Max
What are you currently trying with the 951? I am thinking about either NEO 10w-40 or RL 10w-40. Do you think those would be good to try? I will post some UOAs if I try either of them.quote:
Originally posted by MikeL:
Mobil 1 isn't very kind to rod bearing in 944 engines unfortunately (that's if you visit the redline often).
I might also try the Schaeffer's 15w-40 7000 blend. I know everyone says to use synthetic, but what about this blend, it is supposed to be great?
Any other ideas?
Thanks,
Max
Well a friend of mine races and street drives a 944 NA that he ran nothing but redline in for the longest time. Now he's up in the 140k to 160k mile range and no problems yet although he did just recently switch to mobil. I would think with the high content of moly in redline (i have no idea what neo is besides a matrix character) that it would be kinder to the rod bearings but i'm no oil guru just a tester. BTW, with the oil temp gauge on the 951 (this car is no where near stock) the highest temp we've seen here in NM is 230 so far with an aftermaket oil cooler.
With the greatest respect, I think posts abovequote:
Originally posted by TSoA:
My mechanic pointed to a few 944t in his shop that had blown engines on M1 15w-50. He hates it and Castrol Syntec 5w-50 is the only synth he uses. It goes against what many people think here, but I trust my BOSCH Mechanic, period. See my earlier post on Syntec 5w-50 a page or two down.
are were subjective. Your mechanic is obviously very opinionated and there is nothing wrong with that, but the statement that these blown engines were caused by M1 15w-50 is in my opinion an irresponsible comment as the reader does not know any other details surrounding this statement.
macnewma, because of price. He always believed in changing redline at 3k miles, sometimes shorter no matter what i told him. After 3 years he finally thought, why am i doing 50 dollars oil changes in just oil when i am using it on a tired old 83 944.
nosmo king, it's not directly because of mobil technically. 944 engine oil runs very hot on tracks and 944 turbo engines with stock oil coolers do as well. Although a definite reason as to why hasn't been acheived yet, the common occurence is slight loose of oil pressure with mobil 1 after a number of hard laps. But with other oils the cars don't loose the oil pressure. If i can find the post on rennlist i'll post it, there were a group of racers sharing experiences with mobil on the track.
nosmo king, it's not directly because of mobil technically. 944 engine oil runs very hot on tracks and 944 turbo engines with stock oil coolers do as well. Although a definite reason as to why hasn't been acheived yet, the common occurence is slight loose of oil pressure with mobil 1 after a number of hard laps. But with other oils the cars don't loose the oil pressure. If i can find the post on rennlist i'll post it, there were a group of racers sharing experiences with mobil on the track.
10-30 in redline, 15-50 in mobil. Personally, and i don't know if this is placebo or not, but i think it ran a little smoother with redline but that's just my opinion.
I club-raced both a non-turbo '84 944 and an '89 928S4 for a number of years. Always loved the 944 Turbos, but am not intimately familiar with them. The 944s are a dream on the track, exceptionally well-balanced. I found the 928 to be a handfull, always wanting to swap ends. It's much happier as a GT Touring car. The non-turbo 944s run a bit hot on the track, but upgraded radiators are available. Don't know about the Turbos' cooling systems. Since MikeL has verified that the turbos are water jacketed (this was my first question), I'd think that syn oil moves from the "critical" to "beneficial" category for ya.
The radiator part numbers for the 944, 944S, and 944 Turbo are all different, so I'm assuming the Turbo has an upgraded rad. The Feb. '97 issue of Excellence magazine (a Porsche mag) mentions a couple tidbits. It states that the factory Turbo oil cooler is "very good." Also mentioned is "The 944 oil system has been known to get air cavitation under severe corning loads." It goes on to say how some owners install an Accusump system to deal with this. I never experienced such problems, and for now, would simply suggest that you top off, maybe overfilling an extra 10% of oil capacity, before track events. Another tech article mentions the Turbos "...Have proven to be very reliable cars, so major maintenance is limited. I have a friend with an earlier 944 Turbo that has over 250,000 miles with very little major maintenance." Another tech article in the Nov. '97 Excellence talks about the 944 Turbos. "In 18 years of turbo operation, I never lost a turbocharger or seals, and never coked the oil feed line using that oil (Valvoline TurboBlend). I am now using Valvoline Durablend semi-synthetic 20/50 in my engines with similar results. Most high-grade synthetics are good choices for turbocharged cars. Mobil 1, Valvoline, Redline, and others provide excellent service to 911 Turbo, 924 Turbo, and 944 Turbo owners. Pay attention to the rating and viscosity range for your area and season."
I imagine you have good sources in Indiana to call with questions on putting your 944T on the track. Two here in So. Cal. you can query would be Performance Products (a Porsche parts retailer) at 800-789-1891, and TRE Automotive (a Porsche repair shop which also sees track cars - see link below) at 818-509-0257. Have fun and good luck!
http://www.tremotorsports.com/About_TRE.htm
http://www.performanceproducts.com
Here's an Indiana Porsche mechanic for ya, pulled off two Porsche enthusiast websites: Danny Simonson, Foreign Performance, 1630 Burkhardt Rd.
Evansville, IN 47715-2369, (812) 473-0770
[ November 19, 2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
The radiator part numbers for the 944, 944S, and 944 Turbo are all different, so I'm assuming the Turbo has an upgraded rad. The Feb. '97 issue of Excellence magazine (a Porsche mag) mentions a couple tidbits. It states that the factory Turbo oil cooler is "very good." Also mentioned is "The 944 oil system has been known to get air cavitation under severe corning loads." It goes on to say how some owners install an Accusump system to deal with this. I never experienced such problems, and for now, would simply suggest that you top off, maybe overfilling an extra 10% of oil capacity, before track events. Another tech article mentions the Turbos "...Have proven to be very reliable cars, so major maintenance is limited. I have a friend with an earlier 944 Turbo that has over 250,000 miles with very little major maintenance." Another tech article in the Nov. '97 Excellence talks about the 944 Turbos. "In 18 years of turbo operation, I never lost a turbocharger or seals, and never coked the oil feed line using that oil (Valvoline TurboBlend). I am now using Valvoline Durablend semi-synthetic 20/50 in my engines with similar results. Most high-grade synthetics are good choices for turbocharged cars. Mobil 1, Valvoline, Redline, and others provide excellent service to 911 Turbo, 924 Turbo, and 944 Turbo owners. Pay attention to the rating and viscosity range for your area and season."
I imagine you have good sources in Indiana to call with questions on putting your 944T on the track. Two here in So. Cal. you can query would be Performance Products (a Porsche parts retailer) at 800-789-1891, and TRE Automotive (a Porsche repair shop which also sees track cars - see link below) at 818-509-0257. Have fun and good luck!
http://www.tremotorsports.com/About_TRE.htm
http://www.performanceproducts.com
Here's an Indiana Porsche mechanic for ya, pulled off two Porsche enthusiast websites: Danny Simonson, Foreign Performance, 1630 Burkhardt Rd.
Evansville, IN 47715-2369, (812) 473-0770
[ November 19, 2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
Mobil 1 isn't very kind to rod bearing in 944 engines unfortunately (that's if you visit the redline often). I'm still trying to find a good oil the the 44's like, amsoil seems to be good with the NA motors but i haven't tested it on the turbo yet. BTW, heat isn't too big of an issue with 951's (944 turbos) oil because the turbo on 951's came with water jackets and a timing sensor to circulate the water through the turbo after shut down (the wierd sound after you turn it off). As far as belts are concerned, not too bad, just use spec setting for tension and get a tension measuring tool to do it. Your 86 will need it since there's no auto tensioner on the timing belt (all 944's 87 and on got spring loaded tensioner and don't need to be measured for tension). Try www.blaszakprecision.com , they have a cost friendly tensioning tool that work pretty good. Also, once every six months check the ball joints in the a-arms, they are weak design and everynow and then go bad and need to be rebuilt.
NEO would be cool too. We need some UOA here. Go for it.
Not really. You have no need for anything thicker than their 10w-40.quote:
Should I run something that thick? Redline claims their 10w-40 is as thick as a 20w-50 at operating temps...is this marketing hype?
OH, and 951 only require 10w-40 but also have no problem with 20-50. Of course if you track a lot then go with the 20-50 i'd say.
Thanks for all the advice MikeL.
I have read up on the oil cooling on the 951. There is a kit to bolt on a small Mocal cooler and it is supposed to be pretty effective.
I am very aware of the capabilities of the 951 if you sink a few dollars into it. I am resisting that until I replace everything I can think of that might not be in top shape after 17 yrs. It does have a chip and is running higher boost.
I would like to get a MAF, piggyback computer and upgraded turbo...but that $3000 outlay is on the backburner. It is more than fast enough for now and I want it to be reliable.
About the oil, I think I am going to run through the cleaning with the Auto-Rx and then switch to Redline for certain period of time.
I emailed both Redline and Neo, but only Redline responded. Funny thing is that RL suggested their 5w-40...but I don't think they have one. I replied asking if it was a typo, but I haven't heard back.
Thanks to all,
Max
I have read up on the oil cooling on the 951. There is a kit to bolt on a small Mocal cooler and it is supposed to be pretty effective.
I am very aware of the capabilities of the 951 if you sink a few dollars into it. I am resisting that until I replace everything I can think of that might not be in top shape after 17 yrs. It does have a chip and is running higher boost.
I would like to get a MAF, piggyback computer and upgraded turbo...but that $3000 outlay is on the backburner. It is more than fast enough for now and I want it to be reliable.
About the oil, I think I am going to run through the cleaning with the Auto-Rx and then switch to Redline for certain period of time.
I emailed both Redline and Neo, but only Redline responded. Funny thing is that RL suggested their 5w-40...but I don't think they have one. I replied asking if it was a typo, but I haven't heard back.
Thanks to all,
Max
Macnewma,
Did you get your answer in regards to using dino/ syn during Auto-rx cycle? I suggest you email Frank @ Auto-Rx. I would be interested in his reply.
I can see you have plenty of choices for oils otherwise. I'd probably go for the Redline, Motul is another choice if you can get it.
Did you get your answer in regards to using dino/ syn during Auto-rx cycle? I suggest you email Frank @ Auto-Rx. I would be interested in his reply.
I can see you have plenty of choices for oils otherwise. I'd probably go for the Redline, Motul is another choice if you can get it.
Red Line makes 5w-40, just not on their US website. Here's the specs:
http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads/Downloads/tech dataweb Eng ALL 002.pdf
You can get it from the site sponsor if you contact them, just not on their webpage either.
http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads/Downloads/tech dataweb Eng ALL 002.pdf
You can get it from the site sponsor if you contact them, just not on their webpage either.
The factory 951 oil cooler isn't bad, just not as good as some others, plus it's relatively small as well. I believe a cheap upgrade amongst some of the tracks guys are using rx-7 oil coolers but not positive. The 951 radiator is also bigger than the NA radiator. Another issue i just got reminded of is with that cornering oil thing. You can get the upgrade from the later engines which is the oil pan baffle which will help out, or spend a gazillions dollars on accusump. One issues with NA cars that turbo don't have a problem with is oil frathing, or air bubbles, because they have a water/oil heat exhanger. Since the water heats up much faster than the oil, the exchangers with water going through it will heat the oil up faster on startup. Unfortunately, under heavy loads, that heat exchanger creates those little air bubbles in the oil because of the difference in temp (or at least that's what i'm told). You shouldn't have that problem since your cars got an oil cooler as opposed to the heat exchanger.
Also mac, when you get comfortable with the car, there are a surpluss of places that have upgrades for these cars. 951's were one of the easiest and cheapest cars to modify ever produced. A larger turbo alone will stand to give more power and reduce head temperatures (totally different discussion all together, but let's just say that the k26 turbine is a little restrictive).
BTW, as a side note, i cooked my turbo at 90k miles, but then again the PO was a flat out idiot (he super glued the reference mark sensors to the block).
Also mac, when you get comfortable with the car, there are a surpluss of places that have upgrades for these cars. 951's were one of the easiest and cheapest cars to modify ever produced. A larger turbo alone will stand to give more power and reduce head temperatures (totally different discussion all together, but let's just say that the k26 turbine is a little restrictive).
BTW, as a side note, i cooked my turbo at 90k miles, but then again the PO was a flat out idiot (he super glued the reference mark sensors to the block).
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